TOPIC: Request For ASP To Ship Assembled?

Guys, do you think it is a good idea for customers to request for ASP to ship fully assembled by SF?

I see many advantages. Given some of the threads I read here about customer assembly errors etc. and it would be reasonable to assume the vast majority of folks would never have any experience with this, I think it's a good idea.

After all, ASP is about picking whichever pieces you want to build your dream saber, but this doesn't imply that we the customers should necessarily assemble them.

I think maybe an option when ASP goes live: (1) Option to come fully assembled perhaps with a nominal SF extra labor cost customers would have to pay for this, if not free (2) Option to come not assembled (like it is currently).

I see no disadvantages. Yes, I would pick option (1) for my ASP.

What do you think?

I think some sort of simple instructions would help, since there are currently none sent out. Customers shouldn't be expected to figure this out without any type of guidance. We all have different levels of fabrication sense. Personally, I'm amazed at all of the assembly blunders posted, and the lack of construction knowledge. If I'd pledged to this, the assembly video would be a must watch. Boggles my mind the lack of sent info, or gathered facts from some contributers for the amount of money pledged. IMO.

This makes good sense to me, but I don't know how likely it is that SF will implement the change. Still, either that or a set of instructions as Ottomatix suggests would work fine.

Really though if I had pledged to such an experimental idea, I would make sure I knew how to make the thing work in advance...

Some instructions in the box, and a newer, more detailed assembly video would be a good move. Save them dealing with a lot of rma's for twisted off wires and the like.

I read about customers inadvertently snapping wires, in a recent thread about battery compartments incorrectly assembled positives/negatives , apparent need to glue the switch and nut (?) into the circular switch hole etc.

I vote for the assembly line option, with an option to come not assembled for folks to do it themselves, all with instructions as mentioned above. This really works out best for everyone. It would significantly reduce the customer queries, warranty replacements, and just general unpleasantness of breaking stuff. It's a win-win.

An assembly request could be possible, but this line was meant for self assembly. With that being said certain customers may want specific orientation of parts and buttons in specific location. Main switch in emitter side hole, or aux switch in this position, so on and so forth. Because of this assembly option, you are suggesting, an assembly fee would certainly be billable.

At the very least, I could see an option for SF to do a regular Champion (with lighted switch and recharge port) or Hero install.

=Ottomatix= wrote:
Makes sense.

Another point is from quality control perspective. Because the ASP come disassembled, has anyone at SF checked that the various parts actually work before shipping? I don't imagine technicians assembling them to check if the LED and sound all light up (like a normal non-ASP saber) and then pulling it apart again for shipping as ASP. That's another reason why I prefer a SF technician assemble mine, so that he can actually verify before shipping that all the parts work.

Quality control, what's that? Many ASP sabers have been reported miss wired, wrong switches, no timing shims. They are wiring the electronics, so I hope they were making sure of proper connection and function. Especially the LED modules, but the quality control over site seems to be lacking. Possibly from the sheer number of sabers they are expeditiously constructing. I'll give them credit for trying but they really need to tighten up their efforts.

=Ottomatix= wrote:
I would have no issue with this statement, if there had been something in there saying that you were communicating with SF to help them improve their process. Instead, all we have is an observational complaint.

Are there issues? Yes. However, articulating them just for the sake of doing so is kind of pointless. If you have something to say, include CS. Then when you come here to post it, and say that you informed them too, I sure won't have a problem with it.

The reports of really basic things like battery compartments being wired in reverse polarity to incorrect components incorrect components etc also give me cause for worry about the QA process.

QA is often the first victim of rapid expansion in manufacturing, and is the thing that needs to be kept as a priority EVEN WHEN YOU ARE BEHIND SCHEDULE because that will keep your reputation.

The NTSB can be quoted "If you think safety is too expensive, try having an accident!"

The same goes for Quality Control.

I know there is pressure to deliver on the Kickstarter and Indigogo pledges, but to be honest I would rather wait a bit longer and get the product I ordered, than have a warranty job to deal with.
If you get a reputation for turning out sub standard goods, then your competitors will soon find themselves picking up business that you would otherwise have had, while you are dealing with a whole load of warranty jobs that detract from your production and cost you money in a number of different ways.

I am sure that SaberForge monitor their own forums and thus being aware of these issues are proactively addressing them before they become a bigger problem than they need to be, but as Brax says if you are experiencing QA issues raise them first with customer service and work with them to resolve it - unless they know there is a problem they cannot resolve it.

GaleForceEight wrote:
Actually, with the exception of the occasional visit by the big guy himself to post news, there is nobody from SF actively monitoring the day to day goings on here in the forum. Which is exactly why I emphasize the need for communication with CS so emphatically. Because it really is the ONLY way they become aware of issues, and potential trends.

Brax , just to let you know, in the last week, I've emailed Customer Service about many concerns. In fact a few points that were brought up in this topic were mentioned. I don't even have an ASP saber, but my concern for my fellow members has prompted me to stick my head on the block, to make an appeal for a change. If you think that I'm here just spouting of at the mouth, like someone un aware or not sympathetic to the cause, then you are mistaken. Customer service has understood my concerns and informed me that they would do their best to help improve the product and service provided. This forum is here for this purpose, and if I can't share and discuss the truth of things here, then what's the point. I've always respected you as a member , and now as our Administrator. Sincerely =Otto.

That is all I ask my friend. I won't suppress constructive criticism. Now thatt I know you are attempting to help improve the process, we are all good.

Execute66 wrote:
The electronics can be tested without installing them in a hilt.

SilverlightPony wrote:
(Not sure if link works). Thanks, that's true. But I was thinking about was testing all ASP electronic parts before shipping out to customers just like a standard non-ASP saber, so it has been verified that it all works. Your thread about reverse polarity prompted me to think about this.

Brax wrote:
I would not be deliberately wanting to be divisive and certainly not here to tell Phil how to run his business, but having been kicking around the world of the military, aerospace, and manufacturing for the last couple of decades I have picked up one or two gems of information along the way that may help smooth the way to reducing his costs (by reducing wasted money).

While internet forums do tend to congregate and concentrate detractors, one thing I have noticed about the forum here is that it is better managed than most, and there are not many posts throwing criticisms for the sake of making trouble - and that is to the credit of both the guys doing the managing and the members themselves.

Forums are not only a goldmine of information for the members/hobbyists, but also a valuable resource of feedback - and if nobody from SF is monitoring them, it is definitely something they should consider doing.

It would make sense to either have someone from CS trawl the forum for a few minutes each day in order to get extra feedback on how things are going from the customer's perspective, or better still have a designated community manager (one of the forum admins who by their very task will have their proverbial finger on the forum pulse) who can send a direct precis of current concerns as voiced on the forums.

The reason for this is so that the information coming to management via CS/forums would have been filtered by a 'sensible' person, so only the important and relevant stuff is being passed on, so that management can address the real issues rather than fielding a bunch of complaints from different directions that are not collated to readily identify trends. (Statistical analysis really can be a useful tool!)
The other benefit of doing it this way would be a fixed point of contact between the forums and customer service, so that a good working relationship can form - creating trust.

I fully take on board the notion that this needs to go through CS since no such mechanism for communication is established yet, so I'll raise a support ticket to suggest the idea.

As a customer, I want SaberForge to be successful because I want a great product that is reliable and doesn't require warranty claims. Warranty work is an expensive drain on company resources so SaberForge's aim and customer desires are absolutely aligned in this - the fewer warranty jobs there are, the better for EVERYONE! Happy customers and a bigger 'bottom line' at the end of each month!

(sorry for the wall of text)

I don't disagree with anything you said here. As a matter of fact, I have been advised by a couple of people now to try to establish a line of communication with CS, and build a relationship. That was actually something I had considered myself for a time now, so that is what I will endeavor to do. If I can help make a positive difference to the customer experience, then I am down with that.

Jaden Korr wrote:
This would be a huge improvement in my opinion. I'm not likely to buy another ASP again unless they add an option (or make it standard) to have in hilt recharging.

I think that if they do make it an option a $20 charge should be more than reasonable to pay to have it pre-assembled.