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TOPIC: Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic)

Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 2 days ago #83757

  • Sharangir
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Hey there

newbie here, big fan of SW:TOR and KOTOR, as well as a great fan of all the movies (even the Prequel trilogy, don't shoot me :D )

I've been lusting for a lightsaber for many many years (had a Darth Vader retractable saber with clash and hum sounds 20 years ago) and always held back on the serious stuff because of financial reasons. (And because it would be impossible to duel with the master replicas)

I first stumbled onto the Ultra-thingy sabers after Episode 8 a week ago. Read countless bad reviews and eventually ended up on the Saberforge homepage (where most reviews were mostly positive and the consensus seemed to be that the bang-for-the-buck ratio would be best for a dueling saber).


Eventually, I looked through all the hilts and instantly fell in love with two designs:
the Legacy Grand Master
and the Apprentice Heretic

The former, for financial reasons, is not an option, and probably never will be..

The latter, however, is very attractive.


Because I'm not one for half-baked options, I would want my saber to have a Sabercore 3.0 with all bells and whistles. Unfortunately, that means the Champion Tier with Energy Pulse option and quick connect LED option (so I could easily switch the color in the future if I get tired of purple).
With a total price of around 400 USD (with shipping to Europe and taxes) this is way too expensive right now.


My issue now is the following:
Buying a Warrior Tier Heretic saber costs 175$
Buying a Champion Tier costs 325$ (150$ more than the warrior Tier)

If I go with the Warrior Tier and want to buy the SC 3.0 upgrade later, I will pay 200$ for the SC3.0 alone.
But that's without all the additional upgrades and features the Champion Tier comes with.


To be honest, I was actually expecting to come away cheaper with a DIY instal of the individual saber parts.


This post may seem like confused ramblings, but I really am confused now and don't really know what to do.
I guess, buying used might be my best bet then?

Any help, advice, suggestions are highly appreciated

Cheers
Mischa


P.S.:
My only complaint with the Heretic is that it comes with an ugly pommel that doesn't fit the rest of the design. (And, it seems, is not weathered like the rest of the hilt..)
I would really want to replace the pommel for a "03 Pommel" or even the "Sinister Prophecy Pommel" because they match the emitter design better, but these tiny parts cost so much on their own..
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 2 days ago #83761

  • Kirabi
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I'm in a very similar boat to you. I love the Heretic hilt myself but don't like everything about the Sabercore 3.0. So I've sourced parts to build my own internals with a Nano Biscotte V4. I've done some quick napkin math and I think even with the cost of tools(soldering iron, wire strippers, etc) I've spent less than $200 on internals. Granted I don't know what shipping to Europe would add to that.

As far as the pommel issue, again I feel the exact same. I'll either ask SF if it's possible to have the hilt swapped on purchase or simply but a separate hilt, they're only $20.

Oh and to clarify, part of the $200 INCLUDES the LED unit. So $75 for the empty hilt and roughly $200 for internals. I'd probably even say to be on the safe side increase that to $250 just due to potential price differences on parts or the fact I've never done anything like this before so there's bound to be mistakes :side:
Last Edit: 3 weeks 2 days ago by Kirabi. Reason: typos
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 2 days ago #83762

  • Rhyno
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Hey Sharangir
You could get warrior like you said then get a Veteran tier for about $150 plus momentary switch just be sure to get the quick connect LED
There is no Light, There is no Dark, There is only the Force!
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 2 days ago #83764

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So, would you advice against the Soundcore 3.0?

I actually only want the ignition and deactivate, the hum and swing and the clash sound. I don't need any voices, no blaster effects, no lightning and no force sounds and no different fonts. Happy with the most "normal" sound from the movies.

For the light, I need it to offer a flash on clash effect (that's also active when locked with another saber, if that's possible). No pulsing, no dancing, just a Lightsaber.


Is there a better (and, more importantly) cheaper option for a controller out there?

Getting the Heretic with Warrior Tier, Belt clip, in-hilt recharge, LED quick connect, and a 32" infinity V4 blade would set me back 210 USD (plus an additional 20 bucks for the pommel, if SF doesn't replace it per request).

Then I would at least have a working saber to do some photography with.. :)
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 2 days ago #83766

  • Kirabi
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If you just wanted the whole package from the get go and didn't want to build your own or worry about an upgrade later, your best, and cheapest, bet would probably be the Import 2.5 board. It has a "Flicker on Clash" which should be enough for your needs.
Last Edit: 3 weeks 2 days ago by Kirabi.
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 2 days ago #83767

  • KelbornX
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It is always cost prohibitive to get a stunt install first and THEN upgrade to sound later on. I would advise just to keep saving up and get what you want once you have enough funds, instead of just settling for what you can afford NOW.

Also... TOTALLY feel you on the Heretic pommel. I plan on ordering an empty Heretic and Prodigy soon. Then I'm gonna swap the Prodigy pommel to the Heretic, put my Arbiter pommel on the Prodigy (and the Arbiter already has a Fallen pommel on it) and then I'm sure I'll find something to do with the Heretic pommel later lol.
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 2 days ago #83768

  • shane45_1911
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KelbornX wrote:
Then I'm gonna swap the Prodigy pommel to the Heretic, put my Arbiter pommel on the Prodigy (and the Arbiter already has a Fallen pommel on it) and then I'm sure I'll find something to do with the Heretic pommel later lol.

I'm afraid I will need to see a flowchart, please.
:lol:
"Do, or do not - there is no 'try'."
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 2 days ago #83769

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shane45_1911 wrote:
KelbornX wrote:
Then I'm gonna swap the Prodigy pommel to the Heretic, put my Arbiter pommel on the Prodigy (and the Arbiter already has a Fallen pommel on it) and then I'm sure I'll find something to do with the Heretic pommel later lol.

I'm afraid I will need to see a flowchart, please.
:lol:

:silly:
Fallen Pommel > Arbiter
Arbiter Pommel > Prodigy
Prodigy Pommel > Heretic
Heretic Pommel > shelf
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 2 days ago #83770

  • Sharangir
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The funds are not the issue.

The issue is the thought of spending 400 bucks on a "toy". (I never bought any of the big Lego things or any high end replicas for my shelf, so this would be a massive jump up the ladder)

If I could upgrade the sound/light modification at a later stage, it wouldn't "feel" as bad.


Re building my own saber:
If the parts for the heretic could be had separately, I would certainly build it myself. However, the individual parts for any other custom design add up to a significantly higher price.


I really don't understand why an assembled saber comes in so much cheaper than one you build yourself.
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 2 days ago #83771

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The issue is the thought of spending 400 bucks on a "toy".

Funds not withstanding (as I totally get that this is not a cheap interest), but if the majority of experiences I have encountered in my time around this forum are representative of reality; when you get it in your hands, and "ignite" it for the first time, you won't feel like you are holding a toy. An experience reinforced if you know someone else with one, and clash blades with them. B)
If I could upgrade the sound/light modification at a later stage, it wouldn't "feel" as bad.

It can totally be done, by you if you have the inclination, and don't mind the extra expenditure. Or, by Saber Forge, which saves you the labor, but costs a little more.

Re building my own saber:
If the parts for the heretic could be had separately, I would certainly build it myself. However, the individual parts for any other custom design add up to a significantly higher price.

For the Heretic, as a member of the Apprentice tier, there really are only two parts to the hilt itself. The main body (which is one milled piece of aluminum), and the pommel. Its big brother, the Reliant (Elite tier), can for the most part, be built from the ASP parts if they are in stock.
I really don't understand why an assembled saber comes in so much cheaper than one you build yourself.

Economy of scale, and production. Think of it this way. If you were to buy all of the parts of a car, and had the expertise to assemble it yourself, chances are, you would still spend far more than buying a pre-assembeled car that consists of all the same parts.
Imagine what you will know tomorrow....
Last Edit: 3 weeks 2 days ago by Brax.
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 1 day ago #83774

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If you really want a top quality saber something that will last a lifetime, and not a cheap Walmart “toy”
It’s going to be expensive but well worth it
Either go full ASP or full pre built just go for what you like and get everything you want from the get go, it’ll cut the shipping and import if you get everything at once.
There is no Light, There is no Dark, There is only the Force!
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 1 day ago #83782

  • Sharangir
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@Brax
The Heretic is not a unibody hilt, from what I can tell.
The emitter has two retention screws (in addition to the blade retention screw) according to the video review here on the forum.

I don't really like the looks of the Reliant, since I prefer the leather wrap on the Heretic.

I get the car analogy (you can make a fortune selling single parts off of a beater), but would've preferred an analogy to computers, since that's what I do build myself quite a lot. :)
And there you get away much cheaper with a DIY and often with higher tier parts.



The remaining question is:
Do I need an SC3.0, or is there a cheaper alternative out there that would satisfy my needs?
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 1 day ago #83783

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I am not aware of any Apprentice hilts that have any removable parts, other than the pommel. However, as I don't actually have a Heretic (though I have one on the way), I cannot conclusively say it does not. Any other Heretic owners out there know, one way, or the other?

As for other sound options, SF offers two less expensive sound options. Veteran (SaberCore 2.5 USA), and Veteran (SaberCore 2.5 Import). The details on them are in the Forum FAQ located here:

Forum FAQ

And in the Veteran Intro Thread here:

Veteran Intro Information
Imagine what you will know tomorrow....
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 1 day ago #83784

  • Execute66
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The Heretic's pommel is removable (unscrew it as per usual).
"I am the Senate"
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 1 day ago #83787

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Sharangir wrote:
I actually only want the ignition and deactivate, the hum and swing and the clash sound. I don't need any voices, no blaster effects, no lightning and no force sounds and no different fonts. Happy with the most "normal" sound from the movies.

For the light, I need it to offer a flash on clash effect (that's also active when locked with another saber, if that's possible). No pulsing, no dancing, just a Lightsaber.
If the Sound options SF offers aren't your flavour and you're considering a DIY route (or 3rd party DIY) perhaps a Pico Crumble v2 soundboard as it satisfies a lot of the criteria's you have stated above?
The Heretic is not a unibody hilt, from what I can tell.
The emitter has two retention screws (in addition to the blade retention screw)
Basic hilt anatomy:
emitter/blade holder>switch>body>pommel.

Heretic: blade holder-switch-body = one piece. Separate pommel, separate emitter shroud.
Reliant: blade holder-switch = one piece. Separate body. Separate pommel. Separate emitter shroud.

I don't really like the looks of the Reliant, since I prefer the leather wrap on the Heretic.
Wraps are optional. Nothing stopping you with having Heretic wrap on Reliant or vice versa or something different entirely.
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 1 day ago #83823

  • Sharangir
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The description of the Pico crumble v2 sounds perfect, indeed.

However, it's designed for tri-LEDs and not the quad-cree 12W. *sigh*

I guess, in the end I'll simply bite the bullet and buy the Champion tier heretic with custom pommel.



One last thing:
Is the 12W LED made from mixed LED colours?
How does the flash on clash work?

Is it possible to change the colour on that LED, with the SC3.0 ?

Not that I would ever see myself wielding anything else but purple. Maybe I meet some people that refuse purple as a crystal colour and then I'd use blue or red. :)
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 3 weeks 20 hours ago #83828

  • KelbornX
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Sharangir wrote:
The description of the Pico crumble v2 sounds perfect, indeed.

However, it's designed for tri-LEDs and not the quad-cree 12W. *sigh*

I guess, in the end I'll simply bite the bullet and buy the Champion tier heretic with custom pommel.

Then... just get a tri-Cree instead?

Sharangir wrote:
One last thing:
Is the 12W LED made from mixed LED colours?
How does the flash on clash work?

Is it possible to change the colour on that LED, with the SC3.0 ?

Not that I would ever see myself wielding anything else but purple. Maybe I meet some people that refuse purple as a crystal colour and then I'd use blue or red. :)

Here's a post on what LEDs are used to make each color:
http://saberforgeforum.com/forum/saber-forge-saber-gallery/11313-sf-quad-cree-mixing-combinations-colour-gallery#58512

Only the Hero tier or DIY has an RGBA/W LED that changes color, and that's also the only board that SF offers that supports color changing too. Every other SF LED is setup (unless you DIY with a mixed LED) as a solid color. None of the boards except the NEC SC2 in the Hero tier have actual Flash on Clash. The import Veteran board can "flicker" on clash and the Sabercore 3.0 has "overdrive" on clash (just makes the LED brighter), but there is no color change.
Last Edit: 3 weeks 20 hours ago by KelbornX.
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 2 weeks 6 days ago #83881

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Thanks

I guess, getting the hilt with blade separately, then a tricree LED with that soundboard and building a speaker, battery, charger socker, etc. would end up much more expensive than simply going for a champion tier.


Looks like I'm going to sell some of my collectibles to justify the saber.

lol
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 2 weeks 6 days ago #83883

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If you go for an empty Elite hilt $150 plus ASP PNP Veteran $150 plus LED $40 plus AV switch $10 plus blade $30 plus blade plug $10 = $390

pre-built Elite w/Verteran tier = $359

not that much of a difference....for the empty you'll just have to plug it together yourself, but with ASP that's extremely easy.

Either way you can't go wrong with SaberForge!
There is no Light, There is no Dark, There is only the Force!
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Continuous Upgrade expensive (Heretic) 2 weeks 5 days ago #83891

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So the Champion Plug and Play Upgrade contains the Charging port, the battery, the speaker, and the soundboard already?

I thought, that's only the board and the speaker in there. :whistle:

Guess, that's why buying a stunt saber and upgrading with plug and play stuff is so expensive.



Now I did a comparison, putting everything I would need into the cart:

DIY with Plug and Play items:
Blade, LED, Champion upgrade, lit button, initiate hilt (with belt-clip). (No wall charger or kill button, though) costs 364$

In-house manufactured and tested:
The saber with Champion tier and belt clip and quick connect on the LED would cost 345$



I'll give the whole Veteran vs Champion some more thought.
If only the Veteran Tier had the "flash" (brighter blade) feature instead of a flicker...
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