TOPIC: TSL Tournament winner Phil

Congrats Phil!!! Kinda feel sorry for him, he is so tall he had to bend down a good bit to keep people from diving at his legs. Anyway it was a really cool tournament to watch, Daniel Lane is wicked. Well done SF crew

Nice job Phil. The legs may have been targeted, but that reach and hilt length was an advantage though.

Daniel incorporating flourishes into the matches was fun to see as well. Great job to all the competitors, SF and TSL guys.

I watched this via live FB feed, but I badly wanted to attend and compete. Next year....

The TSL Tournament dominated my FB feed this weekend. I think I enjoyed the "exotic" matches the most. Over in the HEMA world there's constant debate about weight and height classes in their tournaments, I wonder if the TSL gets big enough they'd consider it too.

Weight classes might be a good approach if the turnout is large enough. Adding height in addition to that would really narrow the divisions down to just a few matches total, I would think. But perhaps you meant weight OR height for the breakdown of competitors. Then we also have the exotic weapons category...

As it is now, I see it as an Open Weight/Absolute division. I compete in BJJ tournaments and usually both weight class and absolute divisions are available. It is fun to compete in both. I hope we can get to the level that requires all those options.

Martial arts usually don't have height classes. In boxing, you can be a foot taller than the other guy, but if you're the same weight group, it is fine. You adapt to reach. You can't really do that with weight.

Agreed. There will always be body type differences, and pros/cons that come with them. Making the necessary adjustments is part of the fun.

To reuse an old adage "styles make fights."

The are a few things I hope TSL addresses, but for as young as TSL is, this is very impressive.
1. Decide if we are Lightsaber or Sword fighting. The cross between both is awkward
2. In the normal tourney make the length of the hilt more "canon" real, or just make it a sword simulation. Many individuals took advantage of that latitude. Good strategy on their part, but takes away from the skill involved.
3. Keep track of all placements in the tournament, to use to help setup next years brackets and the placement of those who weren't there this year
4. Find some way to compensate for the "fake" effect the armor gives. Many people would just go in real hard and fast betting on getting the first hit. The lack of fear made people silly aggressive

Really they did a hell of a job, I'm amazed this group has only been around for 1.5 years. Really cool

Hilt lenght restrictions is a good idea. Phil definitely had one of the longest hilts.

Otto
Phil had a great strategy, The funny part (to me) was how he had to hunch though. I really wonder how tall he is. Guessing at min 6'4"

There was a 18" max hilt length in the single saber category.

There's also the ludosport route where EVERYTHING is regulated.

I just don't get why they would go that long? I know the gloves force some allowances.
I would think around 14-16" would be the max. Though I really think TSL is stuck on deciding if they a fake using swords or Lightsabers

I like the idea of combat without armor. More incentives to learn a technique instead of a spray and pray style.

SuUpberSith wrote:
I'm curious, as you have mentioned it a couple times, but is it just the hilt length that makes you think it is more like sword fighting? TSL has been my only weapons training experience so I'm unaware if you may be drawing that conclusion due to some other factors within their ruleset as well.

=Ottomatix= wrote:
For meets TSL has 3 Levels of intensity for dueling, with 'Light' only requiring safety glasses, a cup and motocross gloves. I think the idea is to refine techniques here, but you can also test your abilities at closer to real speed during 'Heavy' dueling. I can understand why more padding is necessary at that point. Everyone may have a different idea of 'light'.

There are impact injuries that happen even during heavy dueling with pads, and TSL prides itself on their safety standards to minimize the seriousness of them.

IMO both light and hard sparring in any martial art are necessary to understand timing, distance and to prepare for competition pace.

MTFBWY both!

Davin, It's has a little to do with some of those guys swinging to hard, logically for a lightsaber. With a sword you need to use more force and leverage. With a lightsaber the blade could be going next to nothing speed wise but will cut through what it hits regardless. There were a few guys who went with a very powerful strike, that in my opinion isn't needed with sabers and risks peoples welfare. My concern is that 2 opponents will fight with differing ideas on what it's supposed to mean. At that point skill is less a factor. While we need armor people were doing stupid moves that leave them open. Taking the fictional physics of a lightsaber, if a person does a suicidal attack, odds a very high that (in RL in this fictional sense) that regardless of where the 1st attack lands, the opponents strike would still hit because of the momentum and inertia. As I said above that would be enough to cut the person in half with a saber. Now with an actual sword a second strike like the above, would likely loose alot of force keeping it almost always from being a heavy let alone terminal. I admit I may be being to Anal about this, I just don't like the suicide attacks and would like to simulate real combat as much as possible. Also if it is to lean towards sword training while just using sabers, than the forms are questionable for the most part. IMO. I'm not a pro, I'm in TSL like you. I really just want to make it as real as possible. Say taking points to have a bigger negative effect when 2 opponents keep hitting one another right after each other. Maybe after a certain # of those results both opponents potentially can lose? I know there are many probs with those ideas, but maybe you'll see what I mean?

P.s. I've been up a 36 hours, ao sorry if I'm not making sense

=otto I agree that it causes "fake" results, but the armor is really needed. Maybe a way to simulate the fear is possible, cause all those suicide runs and tap taps were taking from the skill

I see what you mean, and while some of those issues can be attributed the learning process of a first tournament, the lower level of skill for some competitors may also be a factor.

If you didn't see Terry's post in the FB group a while back, He mentioned the contact us section on the main TSL site as a place for event feedback. It could be worth airing your concerns or ideas there. For what it's worth, they seem open to incorporating lessons learned.

I don't think it can ever be truly realistic to fighting with an energy based weapon, but room for improvement is always there. However, as long as any rules are in place, there will always be those that "play the game" as opposed to treating it as combat. Happens in all martial arts.

Right? Cuz, ya'know, the blades should be weightless an'all.

h2soy wrote:
There's some debate on that.

Originally, Lucas's idea was that the saber felt VERY heavy and had a sort of gyroscopic effect which made wielding it extremely difficult, thus why only force users used them. This shows up in the fighting styles that were developed during the original trilogy and progressed even into the prequels.

There is very little reason to spin a weightless blade, much less the ability to even do so since there is nothing to counter the force of your movement against it. However, spinning or linking strikes/guards is effective for maintaining kinetic energy during a fight with a weapon that has mass and relies on force to strike or slash. That is exactly the type of fighting we see in all the cannon material.

If a lightsaber truly had no weight to the blade, a style of fighting more closely resembling fencing would make far more sense both tactically and physically. So, it is my opinion that any lightsaber combat would, and should, mimic standard weapons fighting with any hit from the blade being counted as a strike.

If I'm allowed to chime in on that ... With a sharp sword, you need not that much force at all to cut. It comes down to precision, angle and speed.

Protective equipment has two tasks: First, making it possible to actually HIT an opponent without immediate danger of injury and second, avoiding accidents or lessening their damage potential. The best equipment cannot protect against brutal bashing, though.

So, from HEMA practice I've learned that Control is the best protection. Blade control allows to attack full speed while still being able to switch directions or stop a hit if necessary. The better one gets on a technical level, the less protection is necessary.
Tournaments add a new dimension to the game, though, as the will to win kicks the adrenaline up. Tournament fights tend to be harder, less technical and overall less pleasing to watch (at least from a technical PoV).