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TOPIC: Quad v. Tri cree LED

Quad v. Tri cree LED 1 week 5 days ago #85838

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Hi guys, I'd like your input on something. Saberforge seems to be the only ones using quad-crees with any regularity, citing the fact that they are brighter. Outside of SF (yes I have been plumbing the depths of other forums in my quest for knowledge) Tri-crees reign supreme. The detractors cite blade flare and heat as the downsides to quad-crees, but the worst thing they can say about the brightness is that it's 'only marginally brighter'. The original art for star wars features prominenet blade flare, and a warm hilt on an energy weapon is hardly immersion breaking, so why do people steer away from them?

It also seems that most non SF boards require a dedicated die only for use for FoC. It seems better to have a blade brightness 3/4 of max than only 2/3. Is there a way to do FoC without sacrificing a die? do other boards support PWM like sabercore 3.0?


For reference the colors I'm going for are Cyan and warm white respectively. It will be a non-SF board, I will post more details if it's kosher with the mods
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Quad v. Tri cree LED 1 week 5 days ago #85859

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Simply put, the quad LEDs in any way shape and/or form are not as efficient as a tri with a proper lens. The base flare with dimmer tip is quite noticeable, as is the excess heat.

Quads are about equivalent of a "5w" LED in brightness due to the improper optic, so they'd be similar to a color/color/x tri and brighter than a single die. Where the quads reign supreme is on the 3+1 mixes like Frost (WWWB), Mint Green (GGGB), Yellow (AAAG), and Indigo (rBrBrBR). All of those mixes are brighter and more even than their X/Y tri mixed counterparts. For example, with Indigo the quad runs all 4 dies at full. On a tri, you're running the single rB at full and the one R at about 1/4 or less.

The other difference, as you mentioned, is the Flash on Clash. While you can order a custom quad LED (or at least you used to be able to) to have one die for FoC, the Tri comes out brighter single die vs single die and mixes better.

Here's a comparison between SF quad Arctic Blue (rBrBGG) and tri Arctic Blue (rB/G).
Tri is on the left, quad is on the right.



As you can see, the overall brightness (by the aura) is comparable... but the tri is more even, and the quad has more base flare.

To mimic the "McQuarrie effect", you can simply get a blade from TCSS with Corbin wrap that gives the tapered effect.
Last Edit: 1 week 5 days ago by KelbornX.
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Quad v. Tri cree LED 1 week 4 days ago #85887

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Thanks! Sounds like for a bright blade with flash effects my best be would be a tri cree with flicker on clash.
KelbornX wrote:
Simply put, the quad LEDs in any way shape and/or form are not as efficient as a tri with a proper lens. The base flare with dimmer tip is quite noticeable, as is the excess heat.

Quads are about equivalent of a "5w" LED in brightness due to the improper optic, so they'd be similar to a color/color/x tri and brighter than a single die.

If the optic is the problem, it seems strange that no one has developed a better, tighter optic. You would think that because the quad crees are more concentrated on the board it would be easier to focus the light.
KelbornX wrote:
Where the quads reign supreme is on the 3+1 mixes like Frost (WWWB), Mint Green (GGGB), Yellow (AAAG), and Indigo (rBrBrBR). All of those mixes are brighter and more even than their X/Y tri mixed counterparts. For example, with Indigo the quad runs all 4 dies at full. On a tri, you're running the single rB at full and the one R at about 1/4 or less.

For a bright cyan that is smack in between of true green and true blue what would be my best bet?
For a warm white?
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Quad v. Tri cree LED 1 week 4 days ago #85888

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Major_Tom wrote:
If the optic is the problem, it seems strange that no one has developed a better, tighter optic. You would think that because the quad crees are more concentrated on the board it would be easier to focus the light.

The problem is that no matter what way you slice it, 4 LEDs clustered in the middle of the PCB under a single lens is never going to be as efficient as 3 LEDs spaced out around the PCB each under their own lens.

Major_Tom wrote:
For a bright cyan that is smack in between of true green and true blue what would be my best bet?
For a warm white?

For Cyan you can do either Cree XP-E2 Blue/Green both at full, or Luxeon Rebel Cyan/Cyan. True cyan is fairly "green" rather than just a "light blue" that "Arctic Blue" is, which some people try to call cyan.

Not sure what you're asking about Warm White? Mixing with RGB or ... the actual Warm White diodes? Both Cree and Rebel have PLENTY of White dies lol. Just get the one in the brightest lumens that matches the rest of the dies on your PCB. TCSS only carries one SKU, but on LEDsupply or ordering direct from Luxeon you can mix/match SKUs between several product lines. The "best" Whites are in the Cree XM-L line, but iirc they are quite the battery hog.
Last Edit: 1 week 4 days ago by KelbornX.
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Quad v. Tri cree LED 1 week 4 days ago #85895

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The lenses used rely on boundary layer reflection to concentrate the light. That requires the light to hit the outside of the lens and specific angles. When you cluster the LEDs, the angles get thrown off and a fair amount of the light escapes. That's one problem.
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Quad v. Tri cree LED 6 days 12 hours ago #86109

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KelbornX wrote:
Not sure what you're asking about Warm White? Mixing with RGB or ... the actual Warm White diodes? Both Cree and Rebel have PLENTY of White dies lol. Just get the one in the brightest lumens that matches the rest of the dies on your PCB. TCSS only carries one SKU, but on LEDsupply or ordering direct from Luxeon you can mix/match SKUs between several product lines. The "best" Whites are in the Cree XM-L line, but iirc they are quite the battery hog.

I wanted to avoid RGB lol. I've been looking at mixing W/W/Amber. I know the white will be more powerful than the amber, I was hoping to get a nice golden white color. LEDSupply offers the option to mix XP-L/XP-L/XP-E2 Amber.
Jas-Ot wrote:
The lenses used rely on boundary layer reflection to concentrate the light. That requires the light to hit the outside of the lens and specific angles. When you cluster the LEDs, the angles get thrown off and a fair amount of the light escapes. That's one problem.

Thanks! This definitely clarifies why people say that tri-cree > quad-cree. Would I be accurately summing up when I say that while 4 dice are brighter than 3, the layout of the quad doesn't allow the light to be focused down the blade resulting in a blade of similar brightness to the tri, that is less even? That's how I understood it
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Last Edit: 6 days 12 hours ago by Major_Tom.
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Quad v. Tri cree LED 6 days 11 hours ago #86112

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Major_Tom wrote:

I wanted to avoid RGB lol. I've been looking at mixing W/W/Amber. I know the white will be more powerful than the amber, I was hoping to get a nice golden white color. LEDSupply offers the option to mix XP-L/XP-L/XP-E2 Amber.

It doesn't take much White to wash out the Amber. I have a PCA/PCA/W and even at 1023,1023,500 it's a soft "peach" color. Might get better results using warm white instead of cool white though. Or even just go with a 2700k temp Warm White and call it a day lol.
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Quad v. Tri cree LED 6 days 11 hours ago #86113

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Is it possible to use quick-connects with 2 channels?
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Quad v. Tri cree LED 5 days 22 hours ago #86163

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XP-Ls don't fit under the tri-lens without modification - the LED dome is larger than the other XP Crees the lens is designed for

A single XP-L should fit the standard single-LED lens and still be impressive on its own.
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Quad v. Tri cree LED 5 days 20 hours ago #86169

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Kouri wrote:
XP-Ls don't fit under the tri-lens without modification - the LED dome is larger than the other XP Crees the lens is designed for

A single XP-L should fit the standard single-LED lens and still be impressive on its own.

Are you sure about this? LEDSupply says that the 3-up pcb is made to be compatible with carclo optics...
Would def want to be sure before i order a combined pcb!

https://www.ledsupply.com/leds/cree-xlamp-xp-l-high-density-led-star
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Quad v. Tri cree LED 4 days 23 hours ago #86218

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Positive. I'd wager LEDSupply just copied the text from their other LEDs.

For clarification, the tri-PCB lines up fine. The XP package fits under the lens. But the dome of an XP-L is larger than either the XP-G or XP-E, and it won't fit inside the 10507 lens we typically use.

The short version is you'll need to either remove the dome on the XP-L or widen the opening of the Carclo lens to get the two to play nice together. Search around at specialty flashlight/torch forums for the specifics.
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Quad v. Tri cree LED 4 days 6 hours ago #86277

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What would it take to develop a 4wX4 quad cree. So that 3 dies running and the fourth die activates as one of the 3 cuts off. That would allow a full12w led when effects activate?. Am I making any sense. So would a new board have to be developed to switch off 1 of the 3 main dies and activate die 4 in its place. Or is it possible to make current boards operate this way?
Last Edit: 4 days 6 hours ago by =Ottomatix=.
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