TOPIC: TLJ Novel Crashcourse Review

I will be perfectly honest. If you did not like The Last Jedi, the novel is not going to change your mind. While I've had no real reason to rewatch TLJ save for the parts that I did enjoy (anything with Kylo Ren, basically), I did go into the novel hoping certain things would at least be explained, or elaborated upon.

I got a lot of what I wanted. That was both a disappointment and a relief.

Almost everything that the novel added, I enjoyed reading; Luke's connection and opinions on the Force and the Jedi (several nods to the old EU were made there), the entire background of the First Order formed from Palpatine's Contingency (I half hoped for a mention of Thrawn, but I knew that if he'd appeared on the pages, then that would've already been spoiled for me), Poe's trust in Finn and his peers... even Rose, whom I've more or less ignored save for trying to rewrite her as an interesting soldier in Rewriting Canto Bight, got some interesting development, and her relationship with Finn did actually do things.

But the problem I have is that almost nothing that I've just mentioned was in the movie. Nothing was explained to give character motive and sense, nothing was expanded on. The movie almost seems empty in comparison to the novel. I've been thinking about how the movie doesn't have a very long shelf life, and it should be noted that this novel is an explanation for why. Nothing makes sense in TLJ as of now, and Rian basically left J.J a dumpster fire with which to wrap up all the loose ends. I miss when George wrote the story. I don't agree with all of his plot turns, but at least the stuff he would've written would've been a strong, flowing story, and not just things happening for reasons.

I'll probably be writing up my thoughts on the movie as a whole at some point, whenever I get around to it. Until then, cheers.

Eddlyss64 wrote:
Not in stores, anyway. Those Blu-Rays have been selling like crazy where I work. It's also currently Amazon's #1 seller in movies and TV.

scifidude79 wrote:
I wasn't talking about a literal shelf life, at all. Sorry for being unclear. I was actually referring to how, on the longterm, the Sequel films simply don't stack up to me as being watchable on repeat. I can pop in A New Hope, Empire, Revenge or even The Phantom Menace and enjoy the movie at face value, but I've tried and failed to watch TFA more than twice all the way through on DVD. I just skip around to that parts I like (which is to say, I look clips up on YouTube). I don't understand the difference between the original six and the two new members of the Saga. Maybe my opinion will change when I sit down and watch TLJ on DVD, or maybe when Episode IX comes out and everything magically "makes sense," but as of now, there's my two cents.

I knew what you meant.

Haven't read the novel, but as far as from what I've heard from most people, it's the same as the other novelizations for Star Wars movies; a little bit of elaboration on certain elements, but nothing that will provide new insights or put the movie in a different light.
I still feel Matthew Stover's Revenge of the Sith is still the best novelization, as it gives more information on the feelings and thoughts of Anakin as well as showing how he was slowly succumbing to the Dark Side, a thing the movie was sorely lacking (I mean, it was okay, but his allegiance to Palpatine after slaying Mace Windu really felt too quick), but other than that most novelizations are victim to edits from those in control - aka George with the OT and PT and now probably Kathleen Kennedy/J.J. Abrams/Rian Johnson with the ST.

As for the movie; I get why people are split on the movie, I just don't get the freakin fall-out it has caused. I don't want to go on a rant, because I've seriously become tired from just seeing any mention of TLJ turn into an online discussion/flamewar, be it on YouTube, Facebook or online forums, but I think it's just weird that with all the other movies that were divisive like TFA, Rogue One or the Prequels, there seemed to be a period of discussion, but eventually people just let it rest and went on with their lives.
With TLJ it feels like every single time the irritations of both sides need to be brought up (which I understand I am now guilty of as well, by hypocritically mentioning it now), even when there's no need to (like Kelly Marie Tran getting a happy b'day wish on Facebook from the official Star Wars page and the entire comment section being filled with salty fans saying she ruined Star Wars, whilst others go against it and it's just like... can't we at least just wish her a nice b'day?)

So sorry if I'm ranting now myself and being 'salty' myself, but it's just like; do we have to constantly hear it over and over?
- If you like it; great, me too, enjoy it as much you want on Blu-Ray or have fun looking forward to Episode IX and Solo.
- If you don't like it; sorry to hear that, I can understand certain points why you didn't, but hey, let's move on and see if Solo is any better or if Episode IX might salvage some stuff for you.
- Those that say they are done with Star Wars; more power to you, enjoy the Prequels or Original Trilogy as much you want and just try to ignore whatever you don't like; I still read my Thrawn-Trilogy and Legacy comic books and play my KOTOR video games, even though they aren't canon and some things that are canon I try to ignore (TCW is not my cup of tea for instance, whilst Rebels I feel is better).

Once upon a time, I would be hoping that the third part in the trilogy in question would both tie everything up and answer everyone's questions like Return did with Empire (as Empire was seen as less than stellar until Return came out). Unfortunately, I'm not quite as sold on that chance here, because of how disjointed the Sequel trilogy's writing is. J.J. set up a lot of potentially interesting questions and subplots, but then Rian went in with completely different idea, scrapped a ton of J.J's and basically made TLJ seem like a confused fanfiction to TFA. And the only real ability that J.J. has is to make a timeskip, undo a lot of what Rian did and scramble to give TLJ some bit of sense, while still taking the good parts of TLJ (Kylo is still a mess of a leader, Rey still really doesn't know who she is, Finn could return to being interesting, etc.) as well as not completely retconning everything Rian did. He'll have to rely on the timeskip to rebuild the Resistance (which still undoes a lot of what Rian did), and hopefully bring some closure to the Skywalker saga.

Meanwhile, the timeskip will allow Disney to sweep in with a new animated series that is basically just going to be a less interesting rehash of Rebels, as it'll be that timeskip in between TLJ and IX.

I hate to say it, but I am starting to get a bit annoyed with current Star Wars. It's stopped being a dedicated space opera, written and directed by people who already know the kind of story they want to tell, and it's become a conglomerate of fanboys and corporate meddling. That's the main reason that I've been devoting most of my freetime to SWTOR and watching Rebels clips, and why New Canon Eddlyss Arceane won't be involved in all the Skywalker drama after he leaves Luke's Temple (whoops, spoiler alert!)

EDIT: People can hate characters all they want, but the actor or actress shouldn't take the brunt of those attacks UNLESS the actor or actress has negatively influenced a character for their own agenda. That is all I will say on the subject of actors being slammed for the characters they portray.

^^ true^^
don't slam the actor it's just their job....slam the writers, director or just slam Kathkeen Kennedy

Word is, Mark Hamill didn't agree with what they did with Luke. But, he played the part because he's a professional and he was under contract. He should actually be applauded for going in directions he didn't want to go with the character, yet never missing a beat.

scifidude79 wrote:
I heard about this, as well. However, the novel did go into something about Luke's character that I really, really wish made it into the film in a stronger way, because I really enjoyed it in the novel, and that was Luke's connection to the Force and how it changed his character. While the film never really seems to get into specifics of why Luke lost hope and shut off from the Force, the novel really develops his connection to it. Without the Force, Luke was hapless and afraid. But when he unlocked it once more, it seemed as though all of his hope flowed back into him, and we were looking at the Luke from Return of the Jedi. However, for this reason, he saw Rey interacting with Kylo, or at least sensed his power through the Force, and that sparked all kinds of additional emotions as a result of his bid to not forego attachment as was Jedi tradition. I really enjoyed this part of the novel. But again, this goes back to everything I wish was in the movie from the book.

`nuff said

For what it's worth, I would like to be proven wrong with Episode IX, but as of right now I feel J.J. Abrams is getting a lot of praise for his set-up in TFA and how Rian Johnson just took those ideas and ripped them up, without there actually ever being the promise that he would answer those.
Don't get me wrong, I love TFA and I admire J.J. for being able to recapture the spirit of Star Wars after the Prequels at times seemed to have lost it and just give us a awesome ride (but that's never been his problem, the Star Trek reboots I love because he exactly brings to the screen what he brought for TFA; epic sci-fi adventure that was fast-paced and thrilling).

It's just that I feel some fans are taking that idea a bit too far; like saying J.J. Abrams doesn't approve of TLJ's changes seems weird seeing as Abrams was part of the process (executive producer) to TLJ and could've chimed in if he wanted to change things - or for instance have said not wanting to do Episode IX because of him being displeased with the changes Rian made (probably under the same 'creative differences' reason that Lord and Miller and Kathleen Kennedy used) seeing as they prevented him from doing his 'original' solutions.
But still, forgetting that fact, I feel people are still forgetting that J.J. Abrams lives for the mystery box but has - so far - not really proven he can execute it all that well (depending on how you look at it).

He seems to be more interested in how to make people ask questions and keep them interested, then actually answering those questions.
He uses mystery as a substitute at times for creating tension or interest, but he doesn't seem interested in revealing what the mystery actually is (or if he does, it's really anticlimactic/underwhelming).
He did it in Lost, with Super 8 and he did it with Cloverfield and to a degree with Felicity and Alias; he will throw things and see what sticks, but won't have any long-term plan.
Now for what it's worth, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that it was Disney who wanted to have a Star Wars movie by 2015 and that J.J. was courageous enough to step up to the mighty task and had to quickly come up with a plot to a sequel movie that was going to please as many people as possible and he succeeded in that.

But to think that he had some grand plan laid out with answers to who Rey's parents were, who Snoke was, why Luke went into hiding, etc. etc. I think is jumping to conclusions.
Mean, until last summer, J.J. Abrams would've been mostly done with Star Wars as it was Colin Trevorrow to direct Episode IX (which trust me, I am happy J.J. got the job, cause he seems way better equipped for a blockbuster than Colin, Jurassic World just didn't cut it for me).

What I think Abrams did is make a mystery to bring people back into Star Wars and get them more invested in the sequel trilogy, but never intending to actually answer any of the enigmas posed, as that would be the job for Rian Johnson and Colin Trevorrow.
Now who knows, seeing as he's back for IX it could be he will prove me wrong, but as of right now I feel that we're not going to get any more closure than we got from Rian in TLJ.

Mean, that's why I want to repeat that I don't dislike J.J. Abrams and that he doesn't execute the mystery box well in a certain way, but really well in another; sure he uses it as a device to an insane degree that it almost becomes a joke (seeing as he just uses the mystery to create interest/hype, but doesn't ever make the mystery worth your investment), but he is a great director nonetheless.
Cause that's how I see Abrams; someone who's not interested in the destination, but in the journey itself. And how does he get the journey started? By introducing a mystery that puts our characters on a journey, but it seems Abrams never cared for what lies at the end of the rainbow; he wants to show the characters interacting while getting there - which like said, I do think is an interesting way of storytelling; for example Super 8 despite the mystery being forgettable, has great acting from the kid actors and makes it worthwhile because of the characters they play.

So I do have high hopes for IX that we will get a great movie, but I highly doubt that J.J. Abrams has (or even had before Rian made TLJ the way he did) any plans to wrap things up nicely in a bow; I think he's more interested in seeing Rey, Finn, Poe and the others interact with each other and against Kylo, then actually telling us who Snoke was.

@CrimsonJax88 , I totally agree. J.J. probably really didn't have a plan. He's a mystery machine, we saw that in TFA. That said, the last time I speculated seriously about TFA was 2016, and when I did, the one thought that came to mind was that he's good at asking questions and keeping interest piqued, but I agree that at the time, he didn't have to worry about solving those mysteries at the time, he just pushed that off to Rian and Colin. Now I have no doubt that he was in a bad way coming up with Episode IX's script.

You know, this entire mess wouldn't even be a problem if someone had sat down with TFA's creative team, the people who finalized all of the new concepts, and said 'where should we go from here to create a strong, coherent story?' Hell, they could've created the overarching story from the very beginning, like George Lucas and Steven Speilburg did.

Instead, the entire Sequel trilogy just seems like an entourage of fanfiction writers arguing over whose alternate timeline is the best.

The sequels definitely draw their power from the dark side. Love it, hate it, feel utterly abandoned by it, feel others are incorrect about the movie, whatever; this movie has done one thing that no other has done, it has created a schism in the "force" or general comradery of SW fans.

I won't give my opinion again on the movie. I will say though, I believe the artists are responsible for their work. The theatrical talent has done a pretty good job, so I don't blame them. Personally, I think Driver hasn't even been challenged as an artist and Ridley has done well with what she's been written into.
However, imo the writers and developers have dropped the ball and speaking of writing and novelizations, so far the books have been better at giving coherent and interesting stories.
We'll see about shelf life in about a decade.
It's all up to JJ now.

One of my favorite parts of the Sequels so far has been the chemistry between all of the new young actors. I love Daisy and John's chemistry, John and Isaac's chemistry, and especially Daisy and Adam in TLJ. I genuinely believe that (despite my grievances about the rest of the movie) the scenes between Rey and Kylo with the Force bond were just about my favorite scenes in all of Star Wars that cultimated in one of my favorite lightsaber fights in Star Wars.

Kylo Ren went from one of my least favorite characters to being one of my favorite in this movie. He's so much more dynamic and emotional in this movie than in TFA, and Driver did a great job, though I agree, he and Daisy have not yet been pushed to their limits as actors. They both did exceptionally well with the roles they were written.

The worst thing J.J. can do in Episode IX, in my opinion, is turn Kylo Ren back into a cold, unfeeling Vader clone. He's got too much turmoil and too much emotion swirling around in him to waste by retconning all the progression he got in TLJ.

Yeah I'll have to agree to that; Disney (I think Bob Iger gets named repeatedly as the main responsible) really dropped the ball by forcing Lucasfilm, Kennedy and all others involved to have a movie out by 2015.
I mean sure, 3 years seems like a long time, but the advantage Lucas had before starting on the OT and the PT, was that he had multiple years to figure out the overarching stories.
Now that isn't always a recipe for success; despite me being okay with Phantom Menace, I feel it is the most unnecessary of the Star Wars franchise, as everything in that movie could've been done by flashbacks or some exposition and leaving more room for starting the story straight away with Anakin and Obi-Wan around the same age - now there just feels a disconnect seeing as just when you're about to get invested in the characters of TPM, most of them are changed in AOTC.

Still, I feel that most writers/directors who've had some time to work on pre-production before starting actual production usually makes for a better product; just look at The Hobbit from Peter Jackson - I'm sure that if he hadn't have had to step in after Guillermo del Toro left and was pushed by the studio to pick up where he left (instead of first taking a year or 2 to make his vision come true instead of adapting to the vision of another director) those movies could've been better.
But seeing as everything was rushed, it loses quality.

The same goes for the sequel trilogy; despite me both loving TFA and TLJ (maybe because of the knowledge that they were rushed makes me more forgiving of their faults and more amazed how well they turned out with that small a timetable), I do feel that if Disney had taken their time to make indeed an overarching story first before just going; get a movie out the door 3 years after we purchased the rights!' would've helped.

I therefore believe the trilogy with just Rian Johnson at the helm will fare much better, as he has the time to conceive of what he wants to do and will have 3 films to explore his vision, instead of now being forced to follow up on J.J. (who himself was forced to quickly supply something).
Like said, I still like the movies that have come out so far, although there is indeed a fear that we might get over saturated (the fact that the Solo movie is right around the corner feels weird seeing as I'm so used to waiting 3 years for a new Star Wars movie and getting 1 every year was pleasant, but now every 6 months is like; wow... slow down).
I think if Disney had taken the Marvel-approach - having one big figure like Kevin Feige planning out every single movie and making sure there's a bigger story being told by each individual movie - they would be more successful.
Still, for what it's worth I like what I see so far and do think it's weird a fanbase can be so split on it.

A lot of people are bashing on Rian for having an entire trilogy, but I agree with you. Unlike with TLJ, Rian's got all the time in the world to tell a story exactly how he wants to, and outside the confines of the Skywalker drama, no less. As long as he sticks to the source material (there were a ton of references to The Jedi Path in TLJ that I noticed), and doesn't try to turn it into a political movement; if he just tries to make a strong trilogy of true Star Wars movies, then we're in for a real treat.

Indeed, that's my hope too; just like comic book movies were a sort of hit-and-miss in the first few years since they started releasing (thinking about the 90/2000s now, of course Richard Donner's/Christopher Reeve's Superman and Tim Burton's/Michael Keaton's Batman are awesome), so I'm hoping Star Wars will get into the groove of how to do stuff in as the years go by.
Like stuff likethe first 2 Spider-Man movies, the first 2 X-Men and the Nolan/Bale Batman were all great, but there was a lot of lesser superhero stuff in between and it wasn't until 2008 with Iron Man that they started to have a better grasp of how to do it and now you can mostly assume that if a superhero movie is released today, it will at least be entertaining and not entirely crap like some were back then (Steel, Fantastic Four, Catwoman, Hulk, etc.)