TOPIC: Martial Arts Based Lightsaber Combat

Hi all! I'm going to start with a rather long preface, so please bear with me... I'm a HEMA practitioner (Historical European Martial Arts) from an established club in Boston that practices the martial arts of medieval and renaissance Europe, primarily from Germany and Italy. The systems we practice are complete, revived from hundreds of historical sources and manuscripts on the martial systems used throughout ancient Europe, and today practitioners all over the world train and spar daily with a variety of historical weapons (and in unarmed combat). Our group primarily focuses on the German/Italian longsword, a two handed dueling weapon, as well as the messer, sidesword and buckler, sabre, arming sword, dagger, spear, etc. We practice the techniques associated with these weapons directly from historical treatises, in addition to our primary focus of full contact sparring, often with blunt steel and with the full incorporation of grappling, throws, locks, disarms, etc.

I along with a few other members of my group are huge Star Wars fans, and have aways been interested in reconstructing a feasible lightsaber combat system, based on the existing lore if at all possible (i.e. something more practical than what is often shown in the movies, without the silly/flashy acrobatics and spinning). As such, we'd like to acquire a pair of blades for full contact dueling (obviously as we are equipped for steel and synthetic longsword, we have all the necessary gear for lightsaber dueling), and based on that determine what we can do. I'd like to make some sparring videos, and maybe some with a few of the discoveries we're bound to make in such a setting, but I have a few questions I'd like to ask first.

1. I'd be interested to do some cross weapon training with these. It seems to me like this would only work with our synthetics (I'll link an example), but I'm curious as to whether you think the blades would be able to stand up to blunt steel as well?

2. I need to come up with a set of rules that will allow us to consider the weapons to be lightsabers rather than simply sticks. Obviously the blades are still weighty, so that part is going to be somewhat unrealistic no matter what, but other than that I'm wondering if you guys can think of any that we'd have to keep in mind that I haven't listed below?

-Obviously grabbing the sword, which does work with sharp steel, doesn't work with a lightsaber

-By extension, I'd assume grappling is pretty much not an option

-Do lightsabers slide or stick? If they stick, as with sharp steel, then maybe we could apply some friction tape to the "edges," but it might just be another think we have to throw out the window, as with the issue of mass. This will also change how we think about winding/binding techniques

-Defensive actions basically have to be beating actions or non angled parries, as the blade can't be allowed to contact the hilt. With a real sword, it is preferable that the blade of an opponent be caught here on your sword, because it allows for the most leverage,

Finally, are there any other insights/suggestions you might have for us?

Thanks,
Raffaele

Synthetic sparring longsword example:

http://www.woodenswords.com/product_p/type-iii-f.htm

Some good historical fencing (a group from the UK, with steel full weight sabres), for your viewing pleasure xD:

The thick walled heavy dueling blades will hold up pretty well against synthetic or wood weapons. They will last a while against blunt steel but the do gouge and will be eater through and they are hollow so they could fold around the edge of a thin steel edge.

Most people say they should stick when struck based on the movies it looked like that's how they react.
I'd be interested to see what you come up with for them.

ok if you looking at it from a lore wise place the lightsaber would stick and this would be because of the fact that a lightsabers blade is in cased in a magnetic field

here is where you can have some fun as in the Star wars lore there is metals that can deflect lightsaber blows so having a lightsaber made of said metal

i hope this helps

I am familiar with a few groups that base their systems on Filipino martial arts (Largo Mono is common). I'm currently in a group that uses Kendo primarily. If you are looking for disarming techniques that would apply to a lightsaber I suggest researching Serrada (Angel Cabalas) and Modern Arnis (Remy Presas)

Well I have ABSOLUTELY no clue what you're going to come up with but I am most eager to see it!

Please keep us up to date on your developments!

As a fellow HEMA practitioner (beginner), my only suggestions are as follows;

IF you get a saber with a cross guard, then Fiore/Lichtenauer/Meyer should work just fine. obviously no halfswording or grabbing by the blade, but besides that it should be mostly the same. Grappling would be just fine, so long as there is no blade contact on your skin. Fiore has some plays where you grab the opponent's sword hilt to facilitate these things, so perhaps look into that as a lead to grappling.
The obvious advantage of this is that you don't really need to learn a new system/style, and it will also go a little way to continuing your Longsword practice.

For a standard 2 handed saber like Darth/Luke/ect, the lack of any hand protection on the sword makes the choices a little narrower.

Wielding in 2 hands: The only thing I can come up with is Japanese swordsmanship. Kenjutsu to be specific, as Iaijutsu, being the art of DRAWING the sword is kinda irrelevant to something that does not have a scabbard, but there are a good few beautiful kata's in it that will be good practice. remember that the suffex "jutsu" is preferable to "do" but either will do. I am not greatly knowledgable on eastern martial arts.
there is a book by Dwight McLemore called "the Fighting Sword" that may be useful. he usually pulls stuff from all over, but he is probably the best martial arts/weapons author I know. its the only one of his books I don't have though.

Option 2: just continue using Longsword, as it is what you are trained in and what you will probably fall back on during sparring sessions. fight how you train. just be cognizant of the fact that you no longer have a cross guard.

Wielding in 1 hand: Some points may be picked up from rapier. I'm a little foggy on the original source material but Guy Windsor does a great book called "The Duellists Companion" based on the italian style. I'm not sure If I would go that route though, as while it would make the most sense from a scientific point of view when wielding a laser sword, its radically different from what you are now studying and from anything in the movies.

Option 2: Bolognese Swordsmanship: basically a more codified system for the arming sword, its a good system but the entry level into it is a little high unless you read Italian. I would skip here.

Option 3: Saber. I would avoid the later Military sources such as Waite and Hutton, due to the fact that that style of parrying relies on hand protection. Rather, the earlier books of Roworth/Taylor would be a good place to start for one handed swordsmanship. Also, don't forget Polish Saber, its amazing.

keep in mind that one handed swordsmanship (at least saber) relies on the parry on the strong, so you are running a fine line between a parry and a lost hand cut to lack of guards on the sabers.

My suggestion in just use your Longsword techniques, and perhaps get some friction tape so that the training will work for either lightsaber or longsword.

~Joe

PS: Standart HEMA bout rules should be fine if your group is honorable about calling hits. alternatively, you can use the KANAR system. hit to limb, no use of. hit to body (head if wearing protection) dead. 2 limbs=dead.

Coincidentally I've just published a book here that adapts Fiore, though chances are that if you're already familiar with Fiore you know these techniques.

http://www.lightsaberbook.com/