TOPIC: Possible Refund

So I recently got a great deal on a Graflex from TFA and I want to get it but my only problem is that I have no money for it since I backed the ASP system. I emailed Saberforge on Sunday about this. I said that I wouldn't take no for an answer to get my money back. I'm Indigogo backer #1023 and I got the $370 champion saber package. What is the possibility of me actually getting all the money back from the order? I know it hasn't been made yet and I know it won't be made for many more months due to the speed of the production right now. Please help me out.

In this situation, only Customer Service would be able to answer that question. Anything that we could suggest would be speculation. Especially since the subject has not come up before (at least to my knowledge), so there is not even precedent to call upon.

Another option you can do is sell it when it arrives? I have seen people selling theirs on FB groups.

Perhaps if someone was prepared to 'take on' the backing order together with all the benefits that go with it (subject to Saberforge's agreement to transfer it) that may be a solution to your problem.

I am not sure how the finances and benefits translate, or even whether SaberForge would agree to it; but that may be a more constructive way forward as it guarantees them the money you pledged.

The thing to remember is that you didn't purchase a saber from SF (like a normal business transaction), you donated to their fundraising campaign (via IndieGoGo) and the saber is a thank you (like getting a tote bag for giving money to PBS).

SF might be able to work something out, but I wouldn't count on it.

Jaden Korr wrote:
Yeah. Good luck with this one.

EDIT: MolonLabe0928's reference. I withdraw my comment.
To NightOwl117, forgive my naïve hastiness.

Jaden Korr wrote:
Actually, no. That's not how crowd funding works. SaberForge is offering you a buy in for backing their product at certain tiers. While some campaigns have a "just to support" tier (like a $10 donation that gets you some thank you gift), most product driven campaigns, of which SF is no exception, outline what are pre-purchasing as part of your backing. They are contractually required by the host of the crowd funding (IG, KickStarter, et al) to deliver the promised product or refund your money. SaberForge took it one step further by calling this a "pre-order" for their ASP product line.

Long story short, OP, you are well within your rights as a consumer to cancel your pre-order and get your money back.

No, I think everyone is pretty much saying the same thing.

Kickstarter and Indigogo look for supporters/backers to give money towards a project. It's not a true purchase for the item directly like you would from Ebay or Amazon or you local store.

Yet its not a donation or contribution either. It's not a hand out where you simply give money to a cause expecting nothing in return. They have a contractual obligation to the backer to try to complete the project and fulfill their side of the agreement if at all possible. Otherwise I could ask people to invest in a project and simply keep the money... that would be a scam. There are legal ramifications to doing that.

This kind of project is a fairly new concept, but it's closest to an investment. When you give money to a project you are in fact expecting something in return (it is NOT a gift!) and the project is required to fulfill it's goal and obligation to the best of its ability. But like investing in a stock, nothing is guaranteed. Stocks can go up, stocks can go down, the company could go bankrupt, etc. The goal is that both you and the company get a mutual win from a project. If they do not reach the targeted money needed to start their goal, they do not simply get to keep the money, it is returned.

All in all, I do not believe there is anything requiring them to give you a full refund at this point. If a group of people asked for refunds it would be impossible as the money is already spend in expanding the factory and hiring new staff (the money is spent). It's up to SF to see if they want to consider a refund as an option but that could open a road that could cause issues. But it's possible, or even a partial refund. They could allow you to swap and let someone else buy out your Kickstarter backer option but that could be more difficult than you think. Probably your best bet is to sell it once you receive it assuming you no longer want it when it comes. I just dont see much option for liquidating this asset in the middle of the processes. Sorry. But it never hurts to ask. Best of luck to you.

Jaden Korr wrote:
This is damn near verbatim what I was going to say.

Final word I'll say, and then I'm leaving this one alone:

That is verbatim out of Kickstarter's ToS (IndieGoGo's is similar). Currently Saberforge is not meeting all of those requirements as they're not communicating their delays adequately (they have time to post on Facebook about Rogue One, but not here in the forums about updates on shipping/production).

Huh that is interesting to see. I have never read Kickstarter TOS before.

While communication frequency might not be meeting your expectation, I don't believe there has been any deception in their portrayal of the situation. They shared that things were moving more slowly than they would have preferred, but they are making progress satisfying KickStarter orders. When that is done, the IndiGoGO contributors will begin getting their rewards. That is still the plan. It might be taking longer than you have faith/patience for, but their intent is to get you your reward so far as I am able to tell, and as long as they are moving toward that goal in good faith, I am not sure you have a compelling reason for them to set a precedent that would likely be detrimental to the process.

Obviously, I cannot speak in an official capacity so it might go totally opposite the way I see it, but it might be wise to be prepared in case it does not.

I hope your communications to them have been directed via IndiGoGo, and not This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. , since that has been their preference on things of this nature.

Not that I'll necessarily do it or be able to but would you be able to post the saber you ordered via the saberparts url of it?

Thanks MolonLabe for posting the ToS for everyone. I think it helps as there is a lot of misconceptions of what a project like this is.

And although I understand the frustration, I agree with Brax. Because the wording of the ToS is intentionally broad to accommodate a large number of situations it is difficult to find fault as long as SF is moving forward in good faith. Of course people are going to disagree on what is considered adequate communication. But you as a consumer/supporter have every right in the future to determine if you wish to support their future goals based on the service and communication you receive.

Curious as to what the OP ordered via the kickstarter. Maybe post a picture in case Saberforge agrees to transfer the pledge to an interested buyer and refund the OP?

Ftumch29 wrote:
Seems a sensible option - especially as if the OP can go to SaberForge saying "I am not happy as the wait is longer than anticipated, but Person X wishes to take on my commitment - once he has paid the equivalent amount you could release my money back to me". That way it minimises their administration to give the OP what they want and everyone is happy.

If they would allow someone taking on the pledge to perhaps increase on the amount and place their own specifications on the order I would consider it myself, but that would have to come from SaberForge.