TOPIC: ASP REVIEW Jinsu Razor 2.0 Champion Tier 12W+ Red

Okay, so originally I was going to hold off on writing this review, due to issues to be discussed below. But, in playing around with my new ASP tonight, I figured eh, what the hell. And so, here we go...

Background and design inspiration

I made at least three different ASP builds before finally deciding on which one I wanted to make my official Indie Go Go purchase. I still plan/hope to someday build the other two designs, but the one I finally decided on was inspired by a saber hilt from the old Star Wars Galaxies MMO, the Jinsu Razor.



An elegant weapon, from a more civilized age (when the graphics weren't so good..)

In the game, the schematics for this saber could be taken from the body of an Emperor's Hand, Aralina Silk, who appeared during the "Battle of Restuss" event. It wasn't the most powerful saber in the game, but its manner of acquisition made it something of a badge of honor for those who possessed one, and the design/name has always stuck in my mind for some reason. The "semi-canon" nature of the saber also appealed to me.

So, I fired up the ASP builder and got to work. The design went through several revisions before I finally settled on one I liked, hence the "2.0" suffix in the saber's name. It's not meant to be precisely Silk's saber, but more of one built off the schematics, with some small modifications to suit the owner's tastes (and also to pretty the design up some from the "beefy flashlight" look of the original game render). This is what I eventually settled on:



Complete parts list: Rebel emitter standard, Reliant switch standard, Body 10 black, Relic pommel standard, Sabercore Crimson soundboard, 32" blade


So, I made my pledge, sent my parts list to Saberforge, and waited. And waited. And waited a little more.

Unboxing and assembly

Finally, on May 27th (mere days after I received my Warrior Tier Chosen, which I have reviewed over in the Apprentice Hilts thread), I got word from Saberforge that my ASP was in the queue. I rejoiced at both the news and the timing, as having my Chosen gave me something new to play with to stave off the jitters waiting for the ASP. Less than a week later, on June 2, my ASP arrived.

Second verse same the first- the toblerone looked like someone had taken it out in the woods and tried to beat some extortion money out of it, just like the one my Chosen had come in. Luckily, this one was only dented and dinged, as opposed to having a six inch gash in one side like the last one. So, I got out my knife, cut the tape, and started unboxing.

I unwrapped the hilt first, while my wife watched me like it was Christmas. What sat in my hand once I un-raveled all that bubble wrap, was this:




You might notice first, as I did, that some of the parts aren't the same color as they were in the render. The pommel was solid black, whereas the switch had a standard finish body and a black activation box. I'd heard that the color schemes of some pieces had changed between the builder's programming and the parts being produced, so I didn't sweat this too much. If nothing else, I figured, I could sand the black off if I decided it bothered me too much. I have since noticed that I am the ONLY person (of whom I am aware, anyway) who got a standard switch body and a black activation box on their reliant switch. I am perfectly okay with this, as it just makes the saber even more unique.

Other than that, the hilt is amazing. The construction when screwed together is surprisingly solid, and the parts themselves are crafted and finished beautifully. The part that really surprised me was that the ASP parts are really no bigger in diameter than Saberforge's standard hilts. I was expecting them to be slightly chunkier, in order to facilitate the "do-it-yourself" electronics. Luckily, Saberforge didn't have to sacrifice any of their usual size or quality for these parts, and may have actually, in fact, raised the bar a bit for themselves. So, bravo to Phil and the ASP team for that!

Also, good lord, the Rebel emitter takes loong blade plug!

Next, I pulled out the electronics kit. And here we come to the part that originally made me want to postpone this review. I pulled out my electronics, LED unit, battery sled with attached Sabercore board and speaker, battery, and small momentary switch, and plugged them all together. I'd heard quite a few people have accidentally nicked their LED module wires during installation, and I wanted to make sure everything was going to work before I crammed it into the hilt and risked screwing it up. Once everything was together, I hit the button and the LED lit my entire living room wall in bright red.

The light came on, but the sound didn't. Huh.

"Maybe it's just a low battery," I told my wife. So, I went and grabbed the battery that had come with my Chosen off the charger, which showed it as full. I installed the full battery, hit the button, and again... LED lit, no sound.

I turned the electronics back off, and sat disappointed for a moment. Then, I had another idea. "Maybe they muted the board before they sent it out!" So, I held the button down to trigger the Sabercore menu. Still no sound. I clicked the button as best as I could remember to set the board to the same settings as my other 12W champion tier, but in the end... still no sound. I tried one final time, this time actually going through the menu on my Champion Bane, setting the perimeters on the Bane and then immediately mimicking the steps on my ASP. But alas, there was still no audio. The fact that I could set the flicker and intensity gave me hope, though, as that suggested that the board was fine. The problem, it would seem, was in the speaker.

Making a note of that, I sat the electronics aside for now.

I unboxed/unbagged the rest of the goodies: 32" blade (as requested), battery charger, Saberforge's new "dual function" belt clip (which I actually really like, moreso than your standard covertec holder, so there's another positive mark), saber stand, and cosplay prints. What I didn't find... were clocking rings to align the hilt parts. Well, that's bothersome, but not unheard of. Many people have mentioned missing clocking shims, and those same mentions have said SF shipped them out a pack of rings in a hurry when told they were missing from the package. So, another slight disappointment, but still not a deal breaker.

At thylacinewings' (my lovely wife) suggestion, I went out in the garage to get some rubber O-rings, to serve the purpose of the clocking rings for the time being. Then I assembled my saber. Making sure not to make the mistake so many others have made, I waited to tighten the LED retention screw down last... only to discover that my saber didn't have an LED retention screw.

Were I inclined towards complaint, that would have been "strike three". Instead, I simply emailed customer service, informed them of the bad speaker and missing shims and screw, and asked for their advice on how to make a warranty service request for the speaker. I am still awaiting a response.

However, let me state something plainly and clearly here: This is the fifth Saberforge saber my household has bought in the past year, and it is the absolute first to show any kind of problems. Therefore, I'm willing to cut SF some slack, especially since I realize they've been pushing hard and fast to get these ASPs out. I have absolute faith that Melissa, or some other SF customer service rep whose name I do not readily know, will help me get things rectified ASAP.

I don't bring up the bad speaker or missing parts to complain about the product, but merely to make this review as complete as possible. Considering that A- I am the only person I've heard of to get a bad speaker, and B- They're pushing out something like 3000 ASP sabers all together, I think SF is batting a pretty good average so far.

So, for the moment, I have solved the alignment issue with some rubber O-rings, and earlier today I picked up two 8-32 set screws at Home Depot (for a whopping seventy cents) to take care of the LED retention problem. Once customer services gets back to me about the speaker, and gets some shims sent my way, problems solved, as far as I'm concerned.

I've gone ahead and installed the electronics for the time being, just because this thing is too damned pretty to not at least light up and swing around now and then, even without the sound in it.

Overall/Final Thoughts

Now, I know I've said a lot that sounds bad in this review, but overall, I'm actually pretty happy with how the saber turned out. It feels and looks like an absolute beast, the fit and finish are excellent, and the end result, even with the above listed problems, is beyond what I was expecting. Any negatives that could be expressed about my saber can be attributed to the production rush Saberforge is currently pushing in order to get all of these out to their backers. I hold none of these issues against the company, and am not going to let one bad experience (which isn't even bad so much as just slightly disappointing) ruin my opinion of them.

Because at the end of the day, I still have a pretty awesome saber, which no one else has but me. This is my saber, from the ground up. Which, really, is what the ASP project was all about.

Phil, please allow me to thank you and the rest of the Forge, particularly whoever's on the ASP team, and especially the other KS and IGG backers, for making ASP a thing. A Jedi (or Sith) always builds his own saber, and with ASP, you've made that possible for everyone.

Once they work out all the kinks, I have no doubt that the Forge will come out being even better than ever, and I look forward to ordering several more ASP sabers on down the line.



My ASP next to my 12W+ Mint Green Chosen. I'm so messed up, even my sabers are bipolar!


As a final word, let me say: if you're a new saber buyer, and you've been looking forward to ASP rolling out public to get your own special saber: do not let anything I've said here stop you from ordering. Production problems happen everyday, in every business, but they're thankfully rare in SF's day to day business (see my "first time I've had a problem" and "1 out of 3000" comments above). Once the ASP is a standard product, and not in the middle of a rushed push to get product out to backers who are, at this point, becoming highly impatient, I'm certain very little, if any, of the negatives I've listed in this review will be an issue.

All in all, I'm gonna give my ASP experience a 7/10, with the caveat that it will likely climb up another couple points once the issues are resolved. The shipping was wicked fast once the saber hit build queue, the hilt is incredible, and the problems, despite the many words I've typed about them here, are nothing outside the usual umbrella of "production slip up due to a production rush".

PLEASE NOTE: I plan to post follow ups to this initial review once I hear from customer service about the rings and speaker, as this review will not technically be complete until those issues have been addressed.

Thanks for reading, all.

UPDATE 1: Customer Service got back to me today to say they were sending out alignment shims, and requestng a video of the sound issue, as well as informing me that some ASP emitters don't need a retaining screw, because the inside of (some of) them are threaded to screw the LED module into! I have yet to check the emitter interior for thread, and will include the video further down in the thread once made. But, progress is being made!

UPDATE 2: Video sent to customer service on 6/8. Got an email today (6/10) from Melissa saying they were sending out a replacement sound module and timing shims, complete with tracking number. Score one for Saberforge Customer Service! Also, no LED retention threads inside the Rebel emitter from what I can tell.

Well Done Afadir, a very complete and comprehensive Review of your long awaited ASP. I had bookmarked this for reading later (now) as my attention was divided earlier attempting to multitask but had little success. It is a shame that the Contents weren't complete and some challenges posed however I share your confidence that it will be resolved relatively soon without much effort at all. You wrote that the unboxing was similar to Christmas as you eagerly accessed the Contents of a bruised Toblerone. When you mentioned the Red Illumination, I couldn't help but instantly think of Rudolph popping its head out of the box and illuminating the room for you with the well known nose.

Out of curiosity, you mention that the Rebel Emitter is looong, just how deep is the Blade Holder? With the absence of retention screws were the holes pre-drilled or is this something you plan on adding yourself? The Reliant Switch is becoming an often used piece whenever I play with the Builder. I love that the step-down creates the separation and IMO effectively emulates a Thin-Neck-esque quality about it. This switch section, when ordering a pre-built Reliant, has the option of deleting the Switch Box. Are there any obvious signs as to how it's attached and is the option readily available to remove it yourself?

I personally missed the ASP KS/IGG Trains however still maintain an eagerness to realise my own build once it launches. Well written, Congratulations and Thank You.

OvrcAHst wrote:
I try to be as complete as possible in my saber reviews (which is why they're always so long), and write them as if I was posting them to a stand-alone site, rather than just here on the forums. Hence the "witty" captions under the pictures, and the like.

I remember not so long ago when I was looking into buying my first saber, and being a bit bewildered by the options... and nearly having been put off Saberforge due to all the Haterade that gets poured on them out there on the net, so I figure that being as detailed as possible in my reviews, for both the good and the bad, will help the next guy make at least an informed decision, if not a good one.

I'm pretty unconcerned about the problems mentioned. I've had nothing but good luck with SF in the past, and as stated, I'm sure they'll get things fixed ASAP. As an absolute last resort... I have a spare 28mm speaker, and have been practicing my saber wiring the past couple months. But, I'd prefer to give the Forge a chance to correct it before I do anything rash (and anything which voids my warranty).

I'm at work right now, so I can't give you a precise measurement, but I'd estimate the Rebel emitter's depth at three inches, if not four. It's significantly deeper than your standard blade holder, so that's something to consider when you're choosing a blade length. (In hindsight, I probably should have gone with a "full length" 37 inch, but I prefer the 32 inch's balance for dueling.) I'll try to remember to get an actual depth once I get home tonight.

The LED retention hole was drilled and threaded, it was just missing the set screw. The hole was where the brass post appears on the emitter in the ASP builder render. I don't know precisely why, as I haven't ever so much as seen an episode of Rebels, but that emitter called out to me when I saw it, and I just HAD to use it.

You can pop the card off of the activation box on the Reliant Switch, which exposes two screws, which hold the box on. I actually managed to pop the card off on accident the other night while playing with the saber, but have since glued it back down.

Though, I will admit I'm somewhat thinking of getting a Redeemer, Graflex, or Prodigal Son switch to swap the Reliant switch out with when ASP goes live. I have a bad tendency to butterfinger the low-profile switches Saberforge uses (see my Chosen review), and the traditionalist inside me loves the idea of "in box" ignition triggers, which is probably a hold-over from my first saber being an old Hasbro "Power of the Force" Luke model that came out back around the Special Edition era, and which was used for much weekend dueling in high school.

Man, think I just dated myself there.

Despite my few issues, as I hope I adequately put across in the original review, I would recommend the ASP system for, and to, anybody once it goes live. The feel of holding a saber that you designed, which is yours and yours alone, is something I don't even have the words to describe. It's something we all, I would imagine, had dreamed of from the first time we saw a lightsaber on screen as kids, and it's a feeling every saber enthusiast needs to experience, at least once, in my opinion.

And since Saberforge first started the crowdfunding for ASP, I've seen several other saber companies/smiths start Kickstarters for their own version of a "build-your-own-saber" line. If everyone else is copying it, you know it's a good idea.

Thank you for the feedback, OvrcAHst! I look forward to seeing what you design when you get a chance at an ASP of your own.

I reckon my build can't get revised anymore. Even with configurations on the Builder I find myself favouring certain Parts and there are also times without even thinking, will just select them for use. As eager as I am to Order an ASP, I'm actually waiting for Release of Expansion Pack I so I can incorporate a Crystal Chamber into the Design.

I recently acquired a SF Rebel. The socket depth for the blade plug is 2.25-2.5" deep.
Regarding your led set screw issue. The led itself is held in place with a snap ring and not a set screw on mine.

NeBosa wrote:
Really, is that all? I tried sticking my finger down the emitter on mine to position the LED for the set-screw, and couldn't get far enough down in there to touch it.


The ASP Rebel emitter (or at least the one I got), definitely uses a set screw rather than a snap ring. The set screw hole is visible in the picture below (it's the one between my thumb and the "handguard" ring). I assume this is to simplify things for the ASP builds.

Afadir, excellent combination of parts, and finishes. Fantastic saber!

Is that the blade retention going through the back of the shroud? I kind of imagined it would be on the inner piece to not have so many visible holes.

Seraphyn303 wrote:
It is indeed. I would think being under the shroud would make it hard to get to. Plus, I think the same screw helps hold in the blade holder, but I could be wrong about that.

NOTE: I have added a customer service update to the original review.

Yup. I just checked again and my led sits just under 2.5" so probably around 2-7/16".
My led also sits in the milled area right in the middle/bottom of the tsuba. It has a snap ring above it and I haven't disassembled it yet to see if there is also one below it.
I have a set screw on both sides of the emitter shroud. One goes straight thru as the blade retention screw and the other is a shroud retention screw. Use care in how much you tighten the shroud retention screw (if yours has one). The previous owner(s) of the used one I found may have cranked it in too tight and by indenting the aluminum blade holder socket. It's created the opposite affect on the inside bore of the socket so I find blades are extremely tight to fit in and I dare not even in stall a blade plug as it will get stuck… so I'm trying to find a solution to this now but I plan on doing a disassembly as mentioned above as I want to do a sound install and light change as mine came with a deep blue and I ordered a light blue for it in replacement…

Apologies for talking about my saber in your topic however. Yours is a nice pick up. There are definitely some cool ASP sabers around. I hope you get some clocking shims soon. Did you end up trying o-rings as you mentioned?

PS. Let me know if you want to sell that control box lol

Nice saber and nice review! I'm curious about Body 10, are the more recessed sections textured providing added grip? Like the switch section and section just above the pomel of the new Oracle saber?

The recessed parts are knurled like the Oracle. Body 10 consists of two main components: a knurled cylinder and a sheath that slides over it.

Hey all... sorry I haven't replied in a few days, been wiped out from work.

New update about to go up in the OP.

NeBosa wrote:
You're fine, NeBosa. I find the subtle differences between the factory Rebel and ASP Rebel emitters to be an interesting point. Kind of wish the "factory vs ASP" parts comparison would come up in more reviews, actually.

I measured the blade plug (tube section only) the other night and came up with 3 inches on the nose. I've been using the blade plug to help guide where to seat the LED, so I'm gonna say my blade holder depth will probably end up being closer to 2.75" (I try to seat the retention screw at "as close to the middle of the LED module as I can get it" position.)

The only set screws on my emitter are the blade retention, which DOES serve also as a shroud retention, above the tsuba, and the LED retention below it. I actually learned the hard way that the blade screw is also the shroud screw the other night. Reassembling it after making the video to send to Customer Service, with the blade screw loosened, I over torqued the emitter and slid the shroud slightly off true. Only took a minute to fix with a slight counter-twist and some help from a thin pick (to realign the holes).

And yes, it's had O-rings on since I first assembled it. The parts still aren't lined up quite right, as the O rings are too thick to get it exact. But they're close enough.

I AM thinking of getting a different switch module, as I may have mentioned. If I decide to offload this one, I'll definitely give you first crack at it.

h2soy wrote:
My Body 10 seems to be one piece. If not, they're joined so well that I can't tell the raised sections are a separate piece.

And yes, the recessed sections are knurled. Between the way the body narrows down very slightly, and the knurled sections, it actually provides a really good (and comfortable!) grip on the saber.

I apologize for being a bit behind here. Ya know, I know the parts did not come out the exact color they showed in the builder, but I like the dark to light fade the hilt seems to have. That is an awesome hilt and a really nice one-of-a-kind! Awesome choice and great review!