TOPIC: Dual Lightsabers are Overpowered

BOSSNESS wrote: Haha Good strategy!

The level of talent with a lightsaber is important, considering the fact that all the weight is in the hilt, so it's like you're swinging nothing at all. Definitely Jar'Kai is the way to go when using dual blades, as that's what Ventress and Starkiller would use, but it'd be just as effective if you modified Ataru I'd assume. Ataru is straight offense, trying to take down the enemy with powerful attacks as quickly as possible, but what the second blade fixes about Ataru is you now have a defensive hold, which could lead to easily overpowering if you're proficiency is high with two lightsabers. I didn't mean to make this response so long, but I feel this brings up a good point.

You would think that two lightsabers would be better than one, but the truth is that it's VERY dependent on the skill level of the user. Ironically, many D&D games capture that particular dynamic well - with no training in the usage of two weapons, you gain penalties to your ability to hit (and therefore use it effectively). Likewise, someone using two weapons that doesn't know how tends to be less effective with each blade than if they were using one saber, due to the focus required. You essentially need to be able to attack or defend with each hand (which is insanely difficult in truth), change stances quickly and smoothly, and maneuver your blades around each other. I've sparred with people that don't have as much experience with that setup, and it's shockingly easy to find openings. Likewise, my main sparring partner is insanely difficult to compete with when he has two weapons (the guy designed his own two sword form at one point for a belt test).

I don't consider myself exceptional at all with two weapons, but I tend to think I've hit the break even point. The second weapon helps me against an opponent, but I don't think it pushes me into the "unbeatable" category by any means. I guess the bottom line is that it REALLY depends on who you're fighting.

I admit to the extreme advantage you'll have over every opponent, but also consider the light whip. the light whip is an unpredictable rope of pure energy. even if you swing on light saber and the whip catches it the slack from the whip should cut your arm off. now your down to one saber. now your advantage is lost... also consider the range differences of a whip and a blade, its significantly longer...plus the arm of the user, the light ship and the perfect difference and offence in the right hands....now consider your opponent is duel wielding like you...only they have a saber on one hand and and a whip in the other...is probably consider running...but then again id be the one with the whip and saber

I was thinking, couldn't you just overpower the dual user with the one saber, since you can apply more force behind a two handed swing? It would probably knock them off balance and you can just go in for the kill.

I still think the most overpowered is darth traya's levetating multiple lightsabers to fight at the same time. That was overpowered, lol.

Silabus wrote:
Yes, one saber users do have more power with their strikes, however all it takes is one saber to be blocked and you can attack with the other saber.

CJTHEDJ333 wrote:
While true, a light whip would take a lot more skill to master. Try swinging your belt around like a whip and see how many times the belt touches you

Silabus wrote:
Fighting an opponent who's using two lightsabers is not an easy task. The important difference as you say is the strenght with which the dueler is holding his lightsaber(s)! When fighting with 1 saber vs 2 sabers, you have an advantage in that way, but it's not always enough. Knocking off one saber is giving the chance to the opponent to counter attack with the other while your own guard is down. Like we've seen in the movies, your best bet in fighting against a foe with two lightsabers is to try to have him give up on one of his sabers, or by forcing it out of his hands or by destroying it.

Two sabers can look like they're giving an impressive defense, but it's not always true. In fact, dual wielding is more an attack stance than a defense one. If you play your cards well, and you're holding your guard tight, you're opponent might quickly give you an opening (I'm talking here according to my own experience in dueling)! But be careful; there's always another saber, haha!

Darth Revan wrote:
This is exactly what I was thinking about. Sure, two sabers can't block as well, yet they can still block (just cross them in an X), but two sabers can quickly overwhelm anyone!

CJTHEDJ333 wrote:
Well, a light whip is hard to control and since it's pure energy, if you swing it there is noo way to stop it.
So you could swing a light whip and it could come all the way around and hit you.

So here is my experience doing SCA fencing. My preference was sword and dagger, though I did often fight with or against case (dual weapon same length).

1) With two relatively inexperienced fighters, you will either see the single sword wielder get overwhelmed, or the two sword wielder will tie up his own blades blocking with both blades at the same time.

2) As the dual sword wielder gets more experience, you start seeing cane and sword. What I mean by this is the off hand tends to be primarily used for blocking and then the primary hand attacks. With some experience the single sword wielder will start to win once they realize that they should focus on the off-hand side (parry the off-hand weapon from the outside forcing it toward the primary hand weapon, either bring the blade down on the wrist or arm, or step forward and attack the torso).

3) Eventually the dual sword wielder will start to develop some ambidexterity. At this point the single sword wielder will start to get overwhelmed until he has gotten used to it. As the single sword wielder gets more experience, it becomes harder for the dual sword wielder to win (for example, a common habit of dual sword (at least in fencing) is to either hold the off hand weapon out and perpendicular the body leaving the hand exposed, or to point the tips both at center of mass, allowing you to tie up the blades with a figure eight motion).

4) Once you have two good fighters, the dual sword will have an advantage, but not nearly as much as you would expect. There is a point where the fight is more about creating and exploiting weaknesses in your opponents defense than in overwhelming that. A dual sword wielder has more options to create/exploit a weakness, but also has more options to mess up in a way that can be exploited.

Interesting topic here are my thoughts although some have been covered already...

Star Wars Universe: I don't know if this is true but it seems like in the movies to do a force push or the lightning they always use an empty hand. Vader did smash Luke with stuff in ESB in the middle of the fight but Vader was ultra powerful.

Real World: There are several two weapon fighting styles that exist so they merit decent respect otherwise no one would have used them. As many people have pointed out it is the skill of the duelist that matters the most. That said one advantage you will notice is familiarity. Similar to the southpaw in boxing but again a well seasoned fighter may have the experience required to nullify that. Now, an ambidextrous individual(both hands and feet even more so) can be very dangerous in either regard because of the ability to change fighting stances at their leisure granting greater mobility. Marvelous Marvin Hagler from boxing was known for his ambidexterity but he did favor a southpaw stance often. In my opinion it was because of the difficulty that righties have with the southpaw even if they are experienced.

I am a proponent of training with a single blade, but learning techniques right and left handed. Once you are proficient with both hands, dual wielding become far easier.

As far as dual sabers being overpowered... I'd have to disagree. There's a reason most people don't dual wield, regardless of how good you get, you're still dividing your attention between two blades, three two four or mor depending on your opponent(s)

That's a lot to focus on, and it takes a very keen mind to keep track and still outplay your opponent. Who if utilizing two hands on one blade will have more strength and leverage.

All in all I think it boils down to personal preference.

Actually jedi DID use two blades, it was a variant of Ataru called Jar'kai I believe.

HOWEVER, using dual weapons DOES NOT GIVE YOU an instant advantage!

I've been swordfighting for around 18 years, and realistiically what it comes down to is your experience, and how you've trained.

Because, while having a second blade DOES increase your attack opportunities, it however has certain weakness as well.

Firstly, unless your ambidextrous, your off hand is going to be weaker, not as flexible, not as precise. Because of that, a Lot of dual wielders (unless they train themselves to avoid this weakness) develop certain patters in their style that you can watch for.

Second major weakness, is your sacrificing strength, and a lot of it. Your only using one hand, meaing your going to be forced to use redirection more then blocks, because your one handed blocks won't be able to resist a strong blow from a two handed saber grip. Honestly that's how I deal with dual wielders, knock their sabers aside, or force them back.

Now, of course, with experience comes skill, I'm not saying dual wielding is NOT an option, I'm just saying that just because someone uses two sabers doesn't mean they will automatically win. It comes down to training and skill. The most trained fighter will win, Regardless of what their using

I come from the world of Boffing. (fencing with padded plastic core weapons) and dual wield is not an instant advantage there either. Two handed single blade is faster, can have a longer blade (with control) and much more strength/leverage. The leverage is important to push through and opponents block and on lockups.

Dual Wielding is awesome.

However, as Sapherno says, there is a trade off from power to versatility and speed.

In Spanish Espada y Daga (Sword and Dagger), the dagger was used mainly for defense, and occasional close-quarters attacks (if somehow your opponent let you inside his guard). The sword being the main offensive weapon. Usually the off hand was defending.

In Japanese Nihon-do (Katana and Wakizashi), there was an equal emphasis on attack and defense with both weapons (though the quicker wakizashi tended to work better in defense). Again, usually the off hand held the smaller weapon.

In Chinese Double Broadsword and Tiger Twin Hook Swords, one weapon would be defending at the same time the other attacked. An equal amount of proficiency was needed for both hands.

I believe it all goes to preference. The style of swordsmanship, the stance chosen, the weapon held, the angle of the opponent's gaze- all these things tell you subtle things about your opponent and what you'll have to contend with in a duel.

As far as saber choreography goes, the more sabers, the cooler it looks as people flip and flourish.

Just be safe. Happy sabering!

I have always loved dual wielding visually but unless your just a proficient with your off hand, which takes a ton of practice even for those of us who are ambidextrous, its just not as practical as a good 2 handed blade with a reach advantage. With a longer weapon the end of your blade is faster and can cover more distance with less motion and more stability.

Typically with good footwork and reach you can keep a duel wielder (with shorter blades) out of their range and in your sweet spot until they get frustrated and dash in usually exposing themselves in the process. As always there are going to be exceptions to this with skilled duel wielders, but I have yet to meet anyone who more than dabbles in it.

Remember these are light sabers and theoretically it only takes one swipe or touch to disable your opponent in cauterizing pain or in a very permanent way.

Hey Im pretty sure that you have already figured it out especially if you have already experimented with them, but the reason that Dual Wielding has not been used throughout history (aside from isolated cases such as certain fencing styles incorporating a knife in the off hand) is because the second blade is very very difficult to keep track of and control, and trying to do so lessens the ability of your primary hand, even if you are ambidextrous its still a problem. I always think the same about dual blades but it never works out like that when put into effect, even with practice I end up better with one blade or simply using a shield (I have not actually had the chance to do saber combat yet, I normally do fencing/foam blades/kendo style bamboo practice swords) because it is easier to control and gives you much more focus and control with your primary hand while still giving you a large advantage. Pro tip, easy way to cheese anyone without much practice is to use a spear and large shield, 1v1 with a spartan set up is very very difficult to fight against unless you know what the fuck you are doing.

I did one year of fencing when I was a teen. Didn't like it much, too rigid for my taste. I might have been wrong as it probably takes a lot of creativity later on when you've developed enough skill, I wouldn't know.

What I do know though, is that while dual wielding looks super cool (no one said the opposite in this thread), it's very complicated. The only way I see myself wielding two blades at once would be, if with SF sabers, a 32 inches blade + a shoto. Any other combination seems either too risky, heavy or unbalanced. Being right handed, I'd have the 32" in my strong hand and the shoto in the other.
Also, I've been fun sparring for a long time now (I couldn't say I'm any good at it, I just like fighting and having fun with friends), and any time I've been facing two blades, I've never had too much trouble. Partners might have not been very comfortable with those, clumsy, ... you name it. My strategy was to focus on defense and wait for them to attack with both blades, which I'd then block, bring to the ground if possible, and slap them in the face with my free hand
Very nice way to put them back in place

I'll let you know what happens on Saturday if I can get a lightsaber class as I want to.
As for me, I doubt I'll go for dual wielding. Requires too much focus and dexterity which I do not have (yet).