TOPIC: Was Yoda and the Emperor wrong?

Hello friends.. Prior to watching TFA, I was convinced that Kylo Ren was Luke mainly based on 2 things. First, Luke was never in any trailer or poster and looking at this new villain with a mask I really felt it was Luke. Before going to watch TFA, I decided to watch all other 6 movies to get a nice refresher. So when I saw Luke training with Yoda for the first time, Luke suddenly told Yoda that he had to leave and help Han and Leia. Yoda told him you must stay here and complete your training. Luke promised Yoda that he will be back to finish training.. And Yoda said: If you leave now, an agent of evil you will become. sooo, I was like, damn, Luke must be Kylo Ren.... Also, before Luke's final battle with Vader, the Emperor told Luke: Strike me down, and your journey to the dark side will be complete. We all know that Luke went for it, I mean, Vader blocked him, but Luke did try to kill the Emperor right there... so now, that we all know that Luke didn't turn out to be Kylo Ren.... was Yoda and Palpatine's sort of predictions wrong? Or is there still a chance that Luke will turn?

No, I think the resolution of RotJ establishes Luke firmly as a Jedi and in staunch opposition to the Dark Side. When this new trilogy has someone turn (and it almost certainly will) it'll be one of the new characters I'd bet.

I always thought Vader stopping Luke was symbolic, of the father stopping the son of going down the wrong path as he did and saving him from the dark side

That's a pretty awesome symbol.

Kered wrote: en


That's very intriguing way of looking at it... I like it! So when Vader blocked Luke from killing the Emperor, He wasn't saving the Emperor, He was saving Luke... very very nice

Kered wrote:
I look at it like that too, but I do think Yoda was wrong. I always looked at it like Yoda was thinking in Dagobah in ESB that Luke had good intentions but was going to be just like his father and turn to the dark side for one reason or another. I think Luke just proved Yoda wrong - he is not like his father at all. In terms of ability with the force yes, but personality wise no. Don't forget (I hate to reference the prequels but they are canon) Yoda was wrong about a few things in the prequels....

As far as the Emperor being wrong I don't know... it sure looked like Luke was riding that line for a bit in ROTJ by the way he was threatening Jabba, the black outfit, trying to kill the Emperor etc. Palpatine was pretty much better than anyone else we've ever seen in Star Wars at foreseeing event before they happen.

Personally I think both Yoda and Palpatine were trying to manipulate Luke into doing what they wanted, or believed that he should do. Yoda Maybe using a "scared straight" method, Sidious was straight seducing Luke to the dark side.

Darth Vexing wrote:
I kind of agree with you, and its one of the things that bothers me about Yoda's portrayal and Episode V. It doesn't feel consistent. Nothing that Yoda says is really brought up again or addressed. Even in the event that Luke proves Yoda wrong in RotJ, there's nothing to show if Luke appreciates that, and as far as I know, the EU never dealt with it either. Seems to me like the Jedi, decimated as they are, really ought to have been able to curb that kind of dishonesty, which is what contributed to their destruction in the first place.

This looked like a really good conversation so I thought I'd join in. The secrecy of hiding Luke from any trailer and marketing (other than his hand on R2) was IMO pure genius. It kept all of us guessing as to what was going to happen. I never thought Luke became Kylo because he had his chance in ROTJ and turned his back on the dark side. Sure he dabbled in the EU with exploring the dark side (even though the EU is no longer canon). I think Yoda's fear in ESB was that Luke's anger would get the best of him and he wouldn't be able to fight it similar to the way Anakin gave in to his anger. And Yoda in ROTJ does tell Luke he no longer needs any training and knows all that he needs.
The Emperor however, was manipulating Luke into using his hatred to defeat him, knowing that would turn him to the dark side. He almost succeeded too, but against Vader. Luke, even though he tries to strike down the Emperor, you almost have to wonder why Vader stopped him. Was it to protect his Master or stop Luke from becoming like him? The most pivotal scene in the movie though was after Vader threatened Leia, Luke almost kills Vader in anger but stops himself for realizing he would become Vader and that vision on Dagobah would become true. When Luke throws his lightsaber away, he's showing the Emperor he can throw his hate away and control himself. Something Anakin never did. The Emperor was great at foreseeing everything because he was able to manipulate and maneuver all the pieces into place (at least in the prequel trilogy). He just couldn't see how a stubborn farmboy from Tatooine would ruin his plans.

Luke told him right to his face "Your overconfidence is your weakness". That turns out to be completely true. The Emperor's strength was always derived from his ability to KNOW with certainty how things would go, and how they would turn out. Nowhere in his plans was there a possibility of Luke not turning to the dark side of the force, and certainly not of Vader being his doom.

Of course, if Luke were a better student of the force, he would have know that Force Lightning was a thing, and not thrown his saber away leaving himself defenseless against it! However, for the purpose of demonstrating his refusal to let the dark side take him, and setting the stage for Vader's act of compassion in saving him, there was no better illustration.

Thank you good people!

I've gotten great answers and points of view to better understand that line of events. ... makes a lot of sense.

Brax wrote:

That was lesson 27 in the Jedi progression of learning. Unfortunately, Luke left Hoth before Yoda got to that one.

Brax wrote:
If Yoda was teaching Luke all the way back on Hoth I would be very impressed.

Snakeeyz99 wrote:
I gotta stop reading the forums, and answering posts which actually require thought so early in the morning. Clearly, I am not firing on all cylinders at that time of the day. For the record, yes...I remember it was Dagobah.

Brax wrote: Technically... there was Force Training on Hoth in ESB however just not by the teachings of Yoda. Instead it was Force Survivor: finding shelter from the elements with a DIY tauntaun sleeping bag and how to make yellow snowcones, secrets from a Master Wampa.