TOPIC: Kill Key

Darth Vexing wrote:
Definitely minimal. Certainly nothing compared to the draw of an always on AV switch and on my sabers with AV switches I do indeed use the kill key. I would use it on the redeemer as well if it wasn't such a pain in the ass to get out. But since it is, I don't bother with it. Who cares whether it drains a tiny bit faster, its not like I cant just put it on the charger whenever I feel like it.

Brax wrote:
Ive heard a lot of horror stories about people who've dared to criticize Saberforge/Phil's designs being perma banned, from forums, facebooks, and from ever buying from saberforge again.

Im not saying I believe these stories all to be true, as its all heresay, but neither am I going to be the guy that emails him and says, hey this design has some flaws, the old one was better.

Brax wrote:
Thanks. I actually hadn't considered that as a possibility. But that is what I should be doing, not bothering you guys. Sorry about that.

Also, "cathartic" is a new word I learned today.

Gorobulus wrote:
I meant my originally post as more of a PSA for those who didn't know. Yes the drain is minimal, and the Panasonic 18650's SF uses have pretty good lifespans (up to 2000 cycles with proper charging habits). I'm just kinda anal with my rechargeable batteries.

Jaden Korr wrote:
Oh yea for sure. Im definitely not advocating not using the kill key. Its a great way to extend battery life between chargings. Only on my new redeemer do I not use it and that's only because the hassle of trying to get it out overrides the benefit gained by using it, in my opinion. I don't want to carry a pair of needlenose pliers with me all the time lol

EDIT: By the way what are these proper charging habits you speak of? I cant just charge any time I want? Is there specific battery level I should be waiting for it to reach before charging it?

Gorobulus wrote:
Well, I went ahead and said something just now. Just sent my email. I was polite, courteous, and offered a solution to where maybe it could be possible to add a drop-down selector/option to choose the type of kill key you would want (in the same location where you choose blade color, weathering, etc). That way if you like the new "logo-ed" kill key, you can choose to have it. If you don't, then you can choose that too.

I find that bringing up a criticism is better when a solution is also offered (obviously in a respectful and civil manner).

I would recommend many of us sending emails to let them know it is a concern.

Gorobulus wrote:
Normally, you don't want li-ions to drain completely, and you don't want to keep "topping it off" when charging. Though the protection circuits in the ones SF uses do help prevent the former.

Basically don't let the battery go completely dead and dont plug it in after a minute of use on a full charge.

Seeing as at least for now the new kill is the only option, couldn't those who dislike the new key's logo appearance simply paint it to suit? For instance find something that would allow you to fill in the engraved areas, sand it smooth, then paint it in the color of your choosing, black, brass etc. You could also purchase an extra kill key to do this to, so that in the hopefully unneeded event of having to send the saber back to SF, you still have an OEM part, and SF would not ever need know about the modified one.

Darth Vexing wrote:
It's not a bad idea. I am not that good with my hands, ha, but it's not a bad idea. I think someone on Etsy will step in if the old keys go away. You know, I have to emphasize with Saberforge on this... if you want to grow your brand, how do you do that without permanently putting it on the saber? I think using kill keys with logos vs them stamping their logo on the saber itself this is a good solution. All that said, I'm totally team old kill keys! #TeamClassicKillKeys

I do understand the sentiments about how the new style kill keys could take away a degree of immersion. However, does not the presence of a kill key of any kind represent a contrivance that had to be added to account for the battery technology of the day, and therefore inducing some loss of immersion?

I mean, if this were really powered by the tech in Star Wars, I dare say there would not be a need for a kill key. Secondly, when actually using one's saber (even with today's tech), would we not remove the kill key long before the need to ignite it, so that it would not be an impediment to said immersion? To me, it seems like the moment immersion can even hope to take hold is the moment after the kill key is removed and the boot-up sound has played. So, does the look of the kill key (which is not there at this point) really matter that much?

Brax wrote:
This.

And also...

I do not begrudge them the desire to put their logo on their product. If you buy a tube of toothpaste, does it not say "Colgate" on the side? If you order a pizza, is "Domino's" not printed in large type font on the box? I think that Saber Forge has included their logo with their product in the only logical way that they can: on the kill key. Would you not all be MUCH MORE PISSED OFF if their logo was emblazoned across the pommel or, God forbid, across the emitter? What about if it was laser engraved onto their blades, that lit up their logo in the brilliant hue of your choosing?

The kill key is fine. Let's not make a mountain out of a mole hill here.

Honestly, its not that bad. The design is still pretty nice, its a removable piece, and if you really are that terribly bothered I'm sure it can't be that hard to either obtain an old one, or get one made by someone else. I understand this would be extra work and money, but really, if your biggest issue with immersion is a small bit of metal on a toy lightsaber, you might have bigger issues.

While I agree that the kill key redesign isn't that big of a deal (Phil's company, he can do what he wants design wise), the real issue for me was that customers weren't told what they were receiving would be different than what they'd ordered, and the store images still show the old style, so anyone who purchases a saber today will still think that's what they're getting. When you pay as much as you do for these and you receive something different, you have a right to be a bit ticked off.






As for "immersion", when I add a recharge port to my ASP hilt I plan on making a kill key using the knob from one of TCSS's anodized thumbscrews to make it seem more like a regular saber greeblie. Plus, I'm also not a fan of the look of AV switches (they dont seem very "Star Wars" to me, but I completely understand why they are used), and am planning on doing a similar mod to it. I actually wrestled for a while with using a PS switch box in the design, even though it would impede dueling, just to hide them.

TL;DR: Kill key redesign doesn't bother me, lack of info does.

And on a similar note, if SF has transitioned to the new belt clips, the store images needs updated as well. I really like the look and versatility of the new one (I'll have to wait for mine to come in before I can speak to its practicality), but if I needed the old version for a costume (like a Prequel Obi-Wan) to be approved by a cosplay group and bought it from the site thinking that's what I was getting, I'd be mad with getting something different.

I agree with Jaden. The pictures should have been updated with the new kill keys. This is why I mentioned a blog or somewhere that SF can post updates that might seem like minor issues like new stands/blade plugs/kill keys. A lot of people liked the simplicity of the old kill keys. The new ones, while they might not be in the Star Wars lore have in my mind too much detail. I am hoping in the future with the ASP launch we will have the option to select the kill key we desire.

My take on all of this is that they honestly considered both the kill key, and the new belt clips as an improvement, and that they were adding a little extra value for no extra charge. I doubt it occurred to them that folks would take it in a negative way. As for the pictures on the site, they do eventually change them, but there is typically a lag between a subtle change like this, and the update. More often than not, pictures are updated timely to represent major modifications, but as subtle ones don't occur that often, they were likely holding out until there was more to justify the cost of the photographer's time.

Again, I don't believe there is any malicious misrepresentation here. I think they saw it as a cool freebie to their customers. If enough inquiries come to them via customer service, they will become aware that it was not received that way in every case, and evaluate what (if anything) will be done.

Assume good intentions folks, and things become so much easier to interpret.

*jumps off soap box*

Brax wrote:
It's funny, when I first saw my first custom lightsaber, this is the VERY first thing I thought. I'm thinking, "toys from the 80's have on / off switches". Why not put a greeblie on it that slides up and down and now you don't have to keep up with the kill key. I had since accepted the existence of a kill key and then forgot about it until just now. However, I think if I understand you is that your point is the kill key's existence detracts from the immersion effect. I would agree. I would also agree that the newer kill keys do moreso than the old. i.e. No Kill Key > Classic Kill Key > Kill Key with Logo.

Ultimately, though, I think Jaden hit the nail on the head. It's not about the existence of the kill key or what kill key is used....it's about setting expectations. And that first picture you used is perfect because that brass kill key looks so GOOD in that picture of the Exhalted. I would not hate Saberforge or swear off their amazing sabers, but it would bother me if I waited a long time and got something that looked less good than what I thought it would. For someone who is new, they have no way of knowing. And knowing is half the battle (sorry, couldn't resist).

Brax wrote:
I'd want an old style kill key because I like to look at my saber sometimes without it being turned on, or if I have it on my belt, I'd want a piece of metal that looks like it has a purpose rather than one with a logo stamped on it. It's the same reason I wouldn't want a blade plug that says "SABER FORGE" on it.

Also, I kind of think of a kill key as less of a battery thing and more of a "safety" for the lightsaber. But now that it's being brought up, I would like to have a kill switch rather than a kill key and leave the recharge port exposed.

Brax wrote:
What you guys have been talking about is not what this topic was originally about. The OP had gotten a redeemer and couldn't figure out A) where the kill key was and b) How to get it out.
What I and others were complaining about earlier was the new sliding card/hidden kill key system on the redeemer and prodigal son models.
Someone else later on brought up the superficial changes to regular kill keys on all models and the topic suddenly became about that.
Superficial kill key logo changes are subtle and I agree with everything you've said in regard to them. The changes to the Redeemer were far from subtle and neither I, nor the OP had any idea that's what we would be receiving. That is definitely the kind of change that should have been updated on the website. The old system was far superior, the new system requires modification by the customer to make it usable, and it still isn't as good as the old system.

That's not to say Im angry or pissed off about it. I love my new redeemer and a simple fix made it usable for me. Its just that we should have known beforehand about the changes to the kill key and activation boxes.

You have a point. There have been multiple discussions since the OP.

However, they do all have one thing in common (with the exception of the OP), which is the sentiment that what they got was not what was pictured. To that, I go back to my standard response, which is to make sure you tell customer service. If you want change, that is the only way it will happen.

When folks start prefacing their complaints with "After e-mailing customer service with this issue....", or something to that effect, I won't feel the need to say it. Until then, my assumption is that you have only posted it here, which as I have pointed out on many occasions, only informs us of your dissatisfaction but does nothing to rectify the situation.

Brax wrote:
Well, dissatisfaction is a strong word. Ultimately I think we are all bitching about a very small issue. In my case anyway emailing customer service about it wouldn't really accomplish much. Im happy with my saber. The fix was pretty simple and works well enough for me.
The main reason I wanted to speak about it and make clear the differences between the old/new redeemer is really just to get the word out on the forums. To make people aware of how the system is now and what I feel its shortcomings are compared with the way it was before. I just wanted people who may be buying Redeemers in the future to be aware that its different than what is shown on the website.
But for me personally, Im not unhappy with it. Everything about the saber is quality except for that one thing which Ive fixed up well enough for me.